Posted on 11/24/2015 2:21:12 PM PST by Brad from Tennessee
Sometimes it's just too easy and alluring to take advantage of an advantage.
That's what may have happened in the skies along the Turkish-Syrian border today as two Turkish F16s shot down a Russian SU-24 bomber. The Turks say the Russian jet was flying into Turkish airspace. The Russians deny that. The political squabbling will go on perhaps for years.
But from a military and industrial standpoint, there are things we know now that are crystal clear and they should have an impact on the bottom lines for defense contractors all over the globe.
First, I'd like to put this nicely but why mince words? A Russian SU-24 going up against an F16 is like a Pop Warner football team taking on the New England Patriots. No contest. The F16 is a far superior machine and Lockheed Martin also completed and delivered a $635 million upgrade to Turkey's F16 fleet just seven months ago. One SU-24 going up against even a non-upgraded F16 is still a mismatch. But an SU-24 going up against two upgraded F16's is a laugher. Is it possible this incident was the product of Turkish pilots who were just unable to resist their huge advantage in the skies? Someone will have to ask them. . .
(Excerpt) Read more at cnbc.com ...
As many have pointed out, this is not how I would have looked at this story. This was a pair of air-to-air fighters who knew they were going to shoot against a medium bomber that thought there were no actively hostile aircraft. The outcome was inevitable but not particularly meaningful except to the Russian pilot. The next round could turn out differently (or even include Russian fighter escorts - does Turkey really want to see the top MIG pilots face a pair of F-16s?).
Obama just came from Turkey. So the timing is interesting. Then Obama comes out in defense of Turkey. Not only that, but he goes further and says that it is Russia’s fault for supporting Assad. Obama is very dug in on the Assad issue. He wants Assad out. He has invested in that by giving U.S. weapons to the “rebels” and by supposedly training them (that was a disaster). Obama has pretended to be at war with ISIS while he has done little but make excuses for them. He wants Assad out and that seems to be his only interest. So along comes Russia and they make Obama look silly. They make more progress against ISIS in a few weeks than Obama has done over a much longer period.
Obama’s m.o. is “reward your friends and punish your enemies.” He also routinely gains victories by sneaky and dishonest means. So here he can convince Turkey (also supporting the Syrian rebels) to claim Russia was violating their airspace and give them cover to be offensive against Russia while claiming to be defensive. If it escalates, it would coerce the rest of NATO into entering the conflict. Some scheme.
All that happened on the same day Obama chooses to step up support of Ukraine. Obama is out to get Putin, or so it looks obvious to me.
I would argue that the leaders of Turkey are like the rest of the world’s leaders and sit there while Obama babbles but pay absolutely no attention to him
Maybe usually. It sure looks like they paid attention this time because what they did and what he says match perfectly. It reeks of collusion.
I’m not so sure of that. The area it crashed in was Syrian. Turkey apparently has made it’s own no-fly zone in Syrian airspace due to Syrian forces taking shots at Turkish forces and that’s possibly where the encounter took place.
It is like an A10 going against the SU30. Result is a shot down A10.
Doesn’t make the Warthog a bad aircraft, it was never meant to fight other fighters.
I just watched the answer on Fox. the Russian plane flew across a peninsula of turkey that protrudes into Syria. It is narrow.
If it was shot in turkey, it had momentum that carried it the short distance across the protrusion back into Syria where it spun in.
Further, the protrusion is Turkish but the Syrians claim it. I’m putting forth the thought that the Russians used Syrian maps that didn’t identify the territory as Turkish. On the TV map it is all plain as day.
Let’s see...you’re on the sidewalk in front of my house; I call 911; I shout repeatedly “Get off my property! Stay away from me! Get back! Get back, or I’ll shoot!”; and, then, I shoot you. Yep, that settles it; it was self-defense. 911, after all, has the recording of all my “warnings”. BTW, you can’t say “But my body was on the sidewalk” because the Russian plane crashed 4 KM inside Syria. Even is the Russian jet was briefly over Turkish territory, the shoot down was disgraceful. But I think there is more to the story than is being reported by the MSM.
Well, if it was on TV, that settles it.
You are implying that you are not already part of the resistance.
The Turks are part of NATO; the US still largely funds NATO. We are part of that alliance.
Frontline Bomber
Su - 24
http://www.enemyforces.net/aircraft/su24.htm
More info...
Sukhoi Su-24
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-24
“Number built Approximately 1,400”
Looks like an ongoing problem. Turkey has previously intercepted SU-24s for airspace violations.
Turkey Intercepts Russian Plane
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bo1RlzU_ss
Russian jet over Turkey risked being shot down says USA Breaking News October 6 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0ognDq6q2s
Word has it that a Turkish F-16 was painted by a SU-30 last week during a simliar incident. Nobody got shot at, but the Sukhoi has a lock so the F-16 was likely dead. SU-30’s can take BVR shots.
Interesting. It looks like it has pretty good performance.
Turkey Shoots Down Russian Sukhoi Su-24 Jet Near Border(FULL REPORT)!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuf0P21xS-s
From that last link:
“One of the pilots is in the hands of Turkmen forces in northern Syria, CCN Turk said, citing local sources.”
“.. just waiting for an opportunity to pop any Turkish plane which strays even a millimeter into Syria.”
Or even thinks about getting close to the border.
TEN TIMES OVER 15 MINS ...
************************************
It was in 5 minutes. US confirmed that, since the warnings were broadcast on the open guard channel. ....Russia violated Turkey airspace at least twice, a week or two ago, and Turkey told them not to do it again... or else.
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