Posted on 11/24/2015 7:17:17 AM PST by Biggirl
President Vladimir Putin has accused Turkey of funding ISIS, and using its military to protect the terrorist organisation, after a Russian fighter jet was shot down near the Syrian border on Tuesday morning. The two-pilot Sukhoi Su-24 jet was shot down by F-16 fighter planes just after 9am this morning, after it violated Turkish airspace and ignored nearly a dozen warnings by the military, Ankara officials said.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
I lived in Poland during the days of Solidarnosc' and martial law and visited afterwards when the Wall came down. I know what the Communists can do to a society. Putin is a KGB thug who must be stopped. His seizure of Crimea is an example. If Ukraine had been part of NATO, this would not have happened.
Yes, NATO must share more of the costs of its defense, but walking away by dissolving NATO will create a vacuum of power that will be filled by other, more sinister forces. It will also lessen US influence, which is not a good thing. The West must stand together.
Article 5 of the NATO treaty has only been invoked once, i.e., when the US was attacked on 9/11. This is why NATO was in charge of the effort in Afghanistan.
Btw, Omaha completely agrees with you!
Interesting ally ya got there.
“Russia doesn’t have the resources to fight Turkey conventionally “
Yes, they do. In fact, they probably wouldn’t mind it. Turkey has always been against Russia. Not that being against Russia was bad, but Russia may want payback.
“As opposed to Iran and Syria in charge of the middle east”
there are Christian and even Jews that live safely under Assad and Iran. In Saudi Arabia or the Wahabbist gulf states, Synagogues and churches are forbidden.
A for Iran destabilizing governments, I see moslem brotherhood Arabs going after non-sunni strongmen. Libya, Syria, Egypt. And that flood into Europe and shooting up Paris? That ain’t Iranian Shiites.
You can not defend the world, and $19 Trillion in US debt will prove that point.
The underpinnings of the Soviet Union are GONE. You are fighting old wars.
Putin may be a bastard, but he has simply returned to old-style national power politics. His country’s economy is the size of Italy - let Germany and France, if they have the will, oppose him.
Right now, NATO is simply providing protection for EU bankers, Germany’s control of the EU and the fantasy’s of unlimited Muslim migration which will change Europe forever. Time to consider new threats, not old ones.
What are you talking about?
Am I missing something here?
“They are doing everything they can to keep Assad in power. THAT is their objective”
Here’s a brain teaser for you. If Assad falls, who by far has the motivation and power among the rebel groups to come up on top and be running Syria?
It will be an ISIS state. (nobody except you, McCain and Obama says ISIL)
For Bonus points which of “our” rebels will allow Syrian Christians and the handful of Jews in Damascus to live normally? None.
So yeah, wiping out all the rebels, even “ours” is a very good thing. Removing Assad is doing what the Saudis want, and enslaves people.
Our Satan-in-Chief is trying to start WWIII.
Nice analysis.
I wonder, though, if the steely Putin might not do something wild ‘n’ crazy....
You're worried about the Russian economy when there are 95,000,0000 Americans out of work, while choking under 19 trillion in debt, with upwards of 30 million in the country illegally? Really?
This is like you believing Obama/U.S., are genuinely concerned about Russia violating Turkey's borders as our own sovereign borders get violated 10,000 times per day.
What are you talking about?
Sounds like an Obama response. He don't get it either.
The United States believes Russia’s incursion into Turkish airspace on Tuesday likely lasted only a matter of seconds before Turkey shot down a Russian warplane, a U.S. official said, saying the assessment was based on preliminary indications.
The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the United States was still investigating the incident.
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-entry-turkish-airspace-lasted-seconds-u-official-164618732.html
I don’t know of too many on FR who agreed with the US policy of removing Assad, especially after what had occurred in Egypt.
Having made that clear, there is no question that Putin’s military operation is designed to maintain Assad’s control. He is not there to eliminate ISIS. In fact, ISIS has little to do with this as they are primarily limited to a rather small northern area and at present are not a threat to Assad.
The real threat to Assad, is the US coalition who is arming the local insurgents..
It’s a geopolitical disagreement that neither affects Russia directly or the US for that matter.
So it can be said that it is really a proxy war with everyone in close proximity.
It’s extremely dangerous. And if it escalates it will be the catalyst for WWIII.1 and ISIS will very quickly be forgotten.
Which is utterly and completely irrelevant. A foreign power (Russia) violates a countries (Turkey) airspace repeatedly with warplanes. Said country provides countless warnings, protests, and even goes so far as to involve their NATO allies. In fact, we have F15 C air superiority fighters their now to assist them with protecting this airspace.
Russia continues violating Turkish airspace, is given plenty of warning and ends up with a fighter/bomber shot down. This surprises you? This was completely predictable and the correct response from Turkey.
Our sovereign borders get violated 10,000 times per day, but Obama is suddenly concerned about Russians violating Turkey’s borders?
If you are talking about illegal aliens then you are comparing apples to oranges. The issues are completely unrelated and I am sure you know that. Trying to tie in illegal immigration to Russia flying warplanes over another NATO country without permission is just silly.
Russia deserved to have it's plane shot down. Period. I have a feeling Russia will think twice before it overflies Turkey without permission again. Turkey made it's point and Russia will back down because there isn't anything they can do about it.
Since the Russians were killing ISIS and everyone knows it, there ya go. By the way slick, Obama completely 100% agrees with you.
Phony strawman. I am not saying we should defend the world. A viable, free, functioning Europe is in our strategic national interests. Like most empires in decline, the US is now in the midst of the classic battle between Guns vs Butter. Butter usually wins because it has more constituents. There is no doubt that our military is now being hollowed out. We are trying to rationalize it as being a change in our strategy. We used to have a two and one-half war strategy and constructed our forces to meet it. Over the years, we have redefined the threat down in order to justify reducing the size and cost of the military. This will continue the same way that the UK declined in power and influence. The insatiable welfare state is sucking up all resources in order to tread water. Two thirds of the federal budget is spent on the entitlement programs, other mandatory, and debt servicing costs. With an aging population, we will need more and more resources to keep the welfare state going. Defense is the natural target.
Putin may be a bastard, but he has simply returned to old-style national power politics. His country’s economy is the size of Italy - let Germany and France, if they have the will, oppose him.
The SU was not a great economic power. Russia has the world's second so maybe largest stock of nuclear weapons, depending on how you count them. We used to say that the SU was either the least developed developed country or the most developed developing country. I have been there many times over the past 40 years. It was very apparent when looking at the condition of the infrastructure, housing, hotels, etc. that most of the money was being spent on the military.
Germany and France will not be able to stand up to Russia for many reasons.
Right now, NATO is simply providing protection for EU bankers, Germany’s control of the EU and the fantasy’s of unlimited Muslim migration which will change Europe forever. Time to consider new threats, not old ones.
You sound like the communists who used to attack NATO. How much personal experience do you have with NATO?
The S300 would take out a whole lot of aircraft before you could get close enough, including stealthy aircraft. Obama would not let our military act anyway, so dream on.
Bull sh*t. Our sovereign borders are violated by millions from God knows where during war time, leaving hundreds of thousands of American victims.
How come you and Obama not all concerned with that?
holy mother of g-d
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