Posted on 11/24/2015 7:17:17 AM PST by Biggirl
President Vladimir Putin has accused Turkey of funding ISIS, and using its military to protect the terrorist organisation, after a Russian fighter jet was shot down near the Syrian border on Tuesday morning. The two-pilot Sukhoi Su-24 jet was shot down by F-16 fighter planes just after 9am this morning, after it violated Turkish airspace and ignored nearly a dozen warnings by the military, Ankara officials said.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
Entire history? Come on. Btw, I have no idea about your Israeli question except our alliance with them has been a disgrace. Why all the questions about Israel? Have they too started hitting targets in Syria?
I am late to this post but maybe someone will read this. It is important that you do. This is an arranged narrative by the globalists. The scenario is clear. There was no sufficient cause to fire missiles from one our our jets at the SU24 and to kill the helpless parachuting pilots. This was done on purpose to invoke article 5 in the Nato crap charter to drag us into a war.( Turkey is a bunch of moslem bastards and should never have been allowed in NATO) It must be rejected as totally contrived. RUSSIA WILL RETALIATE ON THIS AGGRESSION!! It will be very harsh. Make no mistake about that — But we could care less. WE HAVE NO DOG IN THAT FIGHT!! Turkey did this because they hate Assad. Assad never did a thing to this country and if Turkey wants to fight Russians— GET IT THE HELL ON. Just be damned sure we stay OUT!!
I am late to this post but maybe someone will read this. It is important that you do. This is an arranged narrative by the globalists. The scenario is clear. There was no sufficient cause to fire missiles from one our our jets at the SU24 and to kill the helpless parachuting pilots. This was done on purpose to invoke article 5 in the Nato crap charter to drag us into a war.( Turkey is a bunch of moslem bastards and should never have been allowed in NATO) It must be rejected as totally contrived. RUSSIA WILL RETALIATE ON THIS AGGRESSION!! It will be very harsh. Make no mistake about that — But we could care less. WE HAVE NO DOG IN THAT FIGHT!! Turkey did this because they hate Assad. Assad never did a thing to this country and if Turkey wants to fight Russians— GET IT THE HELL ON. Just be damned sure we stay OUT!!
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I cannot agree with you more than I do. This is not our battle.
I read it. Thanks.
It is a ploy. Actually, I understand that Turkish soldiers (wrongfully in the sovereign nation of Syria) murdered the pilots. The Russian have every right to be in Syria!! THET WERE ASHED TO HELP AGAINST ISIS!!Putin is so pissed off you can’t imagine. He has every right to destroy Turkish military installations.And he will, if he has any balls— which he does have. Then you will see the media say” We must join in under “article 5” . That is not going to happen.NO DOG IN THAT FIGHT!! NEVER!! ( watch Bolton— He is a globalist whore. You will actually see that dumb assed idiot call for war with RUSSIA over this . You can’t make up that madness!!)
It is more complex than that. It really is between fundamentalism and a more modern version of Islam. It is for the soul of the religion. Right now the fundamentalists are winning.
I have been unable for the life of me to understand why in the scenario where a relatively (these things are all relative in that region) advanced nation like Iran (and to a lesser extent Syria) - which allows women to vote, to get an education, to leave their homes unaccompanied, and which tolerates Christians and Jews
That is the old Iran before Khomeini took over and made Iran into a radical Islamic state. I saw the change firsthand in Iran when Khomeini came in the country in February 1979. The change was overnight. Iran is the biggest state sponsor of terrorism. Sharia law is rigidly enforced.
is pitted against a barbarian, medieval, savagely intolerant desert kingdom like Saudi Arabia, the US and its allies backs the Saudis. Iran hasn’t threatened US interests in almost forty years whereas a bunch of Saudis immolated a large section of downtown Manhattan in 2001 and yet Saudi Arabia “is our good friendâ€. Why?
I beg to differ. Iran is the biggest state sponsor of terrorism. They blew up Khobar Towers. They are funding Hamas and Hezbollah. They have supplied weapons to the Iraqis who have killed Americans.
AQ blew up the WTC. They weren't being funded by the Saudi government. Most of the 9/11 attackers were Saudis, but they were enemies of the state. AQ has attacked the Saudi government and Saudi citizens along with foreigners in the Kingdom.
For Israel my enemy’s enemy is my friend, and Israel’s enemies have always been the same as those of Saudi Arabia (and Turkey). Israel has no real quarrel with Saudi Arabia or Turkey but has had a long history with Assad’s Syria, Saddam’s Iraq and the ayatollah’s Iran, precisely the same enemies as Saudi Arabia and Turkey. The Saudis hate Shias and other heretics more than they do the Jews.
Basically true. The Saudis hate and fear the Iranians the most. There is a large Shi'a population in the Eastern provinces. About 10% of the Saudi population is shi'a.
I have the greatest of respect for Israel, they have achieved magnificent successes and long may they prosper but I think it is dangerous for the US to simply adopt Israel’s regional real-politik strategy as official US foreign policy. I really think the US needs to look again at where this mess is taking it.
You can't unring a bell. Israel is there to stay. They are the only democracy in the Middle East and share our values. Certainly, Israel's interests alone should not guide our foreign policy. But we do have strong political and cultural ties. I hope you are not suggesting we abandon them.
Not really. The Soviets shot down KL-007. They recently shot down a civilian airliner over Ukraine and seized Crimea. The Russians are increasing their harassment of our planes and ships and flying near our airspace.
The Turks warned the Russians days ago that they would not tolerate incursions into their airspace. The Russians ignored it and paid the price. WWIII won't happen because of it.
He did not express the least bit of sorrow for the loss of two aircraft or the violations of the Geneva convention in killing pilots and shooting down rescue helicopters.
Sorrow for what? Do the Russians express sorrow for our casualties? The pilots were killed by the rebel groups within Syria who were being bombed by the Russians. The helicopter is fair game. They are fighting non-state actors who are not signatories to the Geneva Convention.
Turkey might want to think real hard about ever again locking a fighter born radar on a Russian plane, that is in Syrian airspace. That is a deliberate hostile act under anyone's rules of engagement, exacerbated by Turkey's demonstrated willingness to shoot. And, this is not a cat and mouse game. The Russians are in Syria on serious business.
And the Turks are serious about enforcing their airspace. The Turks are pretty tough customers. The Russians mess with them at their own peril.
You blame everything on America. Does Israel share any blame in your conspiracy theories?
Yes, much of the blame lies at the feet of American leadership.
Here, you can read more about American leadership here.
America has been arming ISIS’
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3364687/posts
PGR88’s future (walking away from our commitments) virtually guarantees a significant nuclear war in the next generation (approximately.)
While I’m in absolutely in favor of individuals being well armed to protect themselves, the concept extended to a worldwide nuclear arms race, which WILL occur if the US continues to slide into weakness, is dangerous in the extreme. The US needs to emphatically lead a strong NATO, not quiver in fear as our allies dither.
If PGR88 thinks we have problems now, wait until a big radiation cloud settles over us. We don’t even have to be / might well not be directly involved.
No, they are not. They say they are, but mostly they are hitting other factions, because the other factions are who had Assad against the wall. There was almost a defacto truce between Assad and ISIS B4 Russia came in. Russia is hitting ISIS often enough to provide a thin cover for Putin's story, but that's about it. Half the time they say they hit ISIS, it's somebody else.
True, but Italy could still put the Black Sea fleet one the bottom with modest losses to themselves. The Italians are actually fairly competent. (Personal knowledge.)
Wrong. Look it up.
That is a very important point, often neglected in the overall view of this conflict. Turkey wants, no, needs that pipeline built from the Gulf states, as does Europe. Ultimately, it would stabilize the situation(s) with Russia, but the question is if "The West" and Turkey can get there without a major blowup first.
I would guess that there is a good % that really are not NATO ready militarily, and some % that simply will not participate.
“That is the old Iran before Khomeini took over and made Iran into a radical Islamic state. I saw the change firsthand in Iran when Khomeini came in the country in February 1979. The change was overnight. Iran is the biggest state sponsor of terrorism. Sharia law is rigidly enforced.”
No, that is still today’s Iran, not as tolerant as under the shah but a heck of a lot more tolerant than the medieval bigots of Saudi Arabia where it is a criminal offence to worship any religion other than Islam. Syria was a fairly tolerant nation too under Assad and now we are supporting Al-Queada linked terrorists to overthrow Assad. It is truly bizarre.
The biggest state sponsors of terrorism today are Saudis and their allies in the Gulf states, nothing Iran does comes close to what the Sunnis have done that is a simple fact.
As to abandoning Israel that’s absurd, we can no more “abandon” Israel than we can “abandon” Japan, or Australia, or the Phillipines or the UK but the US is under no obligation to form its foreign policy in order to suit the agenda of one of its allies. If the Brits were doing stuff that got America into trouble the US would tell them to knock it off straight away and would be under no obligation to follow their bidding.
If Israel wants to cosy up with the fundamentalist Sunnis of Saudi Arabia or, increasingly, Turkey that’s Israel’s business, I hope they know what they’re doing but Israel doesn’t get to set US foreign policy, it’s not supposed to work that way.
"PGR88’s future (walking away from our commitments) virtually guarantees a significant nuclear war in the next generation (approximately.)While I’m in absolutely in favor of individuals being well armed to protect themselves, the concept extended to a worldwide nuclear arms race, which WILL occur if the US continues to slide into weakness, is dangerous in the extreme. The US needs to emphatically lead a strong NATO, not quiver in fear as our allies dither.
If PGR88 thinks we have problems now, wait until a big radiation cloud settles over us. We don’t even have to be / might well not be directly involved."
That's been my opinion for decades. However, I'm starting to think we should wean the Euroweenies off the taxpayer USA teat. They have taken advantage of our largess by doubling down on Socialism, slashing their own defense capabilities, knowing full well we'll stand in front off Soviet Russian tanks in their place.
We have so many bases over there it is almost parody. We should have closed up shop and instead demanded deeds from Afghanistan and Iraq for large permanent bases, and serious cash offsets for their perpetual protection. Call it METO instead of NATO. After 50 years there maybe the savages will become as disarmed, civilized, snooty and cavalier as Europe has become.
I don't see how the USA "emphatically leading a strong NATO" ( prior to Dumbo ) earned us a bit of respect from the Euroweenies. I see and hear all the same kinds of bullsh!t about us as we heard starting in the 1960's. Heck, we can still get all the insults for free by not spending our cash defending them, don't ya think?
I mean we still got boomers, we still have ICBM's, we have carriers, we have so much capability for liquidating any enemy that it makes no sense for grunts to be in country, at least in civilized Europe. If our exit threatens their very existence then we should be on the receiving end of massive cash offsets right now.
I'd take it further. We should demand a full accounting of the Marshall Plan and all the lesser know cash cow programs since, and demand payment with interest. If we're gonna be mercenaries then we should get the respect, and the dough.
We're freaking broke. Broker than broke. So broke that it is borderline insane now. And for our trouble we get lip from our 'allies' at every opportunity. ( I love hearing these idjits tell us we need gun control and open borders ).
I agree with almost all of your post, kabar.
Certainly AQ and SA were and are dire enemies of each other.
I’d just add that Iran is especially dangerous because they will almost certainly be the next in the ME to have nukes, unless SA pre-empts them and acquires some from Pakistan, so then you’ve got SA and Iran with nukes, with more countries sure to follow. (Oh, goody, goody!) /s
The crazy thing is that we oppose Iran in Syria, and then turn around and facilitate Iran getting nukes and economic support. Obama is just nuts...
Sort of irrelevant. It kept the peace in the area at least well enough to prevent a much wider (potentially going nuclear) conflict.
However, MY idea of a strong NATO, with strong US leadership means all members pull their weight. WEAK leadership results in us paying most of the bills, and here I agree with you: NATO members MUST step up. Our exit doesn't threaten just a free Europe's existence. Think a few more years out: It threatens US by drastically increasing the chances of a serious nuclear conflict. Consider the consequences of a 100 warhead nuclear conflict, even with NO bombs landing on us.
Yes, but most of those assets can't be used in most ground war scenarios in Europe, esp. the nukes. The nukes are weapons of last resort, and the other forces are to keep "last resort" from happening. Europe MUST step up to the plate - perhaps a President Trump or Cruz can convince them (or maybe even Fiorina, although I rather dislike her in some other regards.) Most of the other candidates I have little hope for, when it comes to this point.
As a friend of mine who was getting overwhelmed with care of his Dad told me, in regard to other family members, "It's time to step up too, m-f'ers!"
(I'm actually in the same position, but have a great wife, thank God!)
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