Posted on 11/08/2015 11:32:40 AM PST by SJackson
Family Research Council president Tony Perkins has been broadcasting his “Washington Watch†radio program from Israel this week, where he is helping to lead an FRC tour group. Also on the tour is former Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minnesota, who joined Perkins on the program on Wednesday to share her view that biblical prophecy is being fulfilled all around her and that it was more urgent than ever to convert as many people as possible — including Jews — to Christianity to prepare for the imminent return of Christ.
“Almost every article in the paper†has to do with conflicts in Israel, Bachmann said, “and it ties with so much biblical prophecy. This week really was about biblical prophecy in many ways. And we’re seeing as events are speeding up, events are speeding up so quickly right now, and we see how relevant the Bible is, and we’re reading our newspaper, at the same time we’re learning about these biblical events, and it’s literally day by day by day, we’re seeing the fulfillment of scripture right in front of our eyes, even while we’re on the ground.â€
“We recognize the shortness of the hour,†she said, “and that’s why we as a remnant want to be faithful in these days and do what it is that the Holy Spirit is speaking to each one of us, to be faithful in the Kingdom and to help bring in as many as we can — even among the Jews — share Jesus Christ with everyone that we possibly can because, again, He’s coming soon.â€
Uh, no, that's NOT what I said. If you bothered to try to understand, maybe then you'd have actually understood what I was telling you. I'll try this again, slowly, so that you have a shot at it:
"REALLY" understanding = actually attempting in good faith to understand why Jews get their hackles up about Christians trying to convert them - it is NOT agreeing with my theology, or anything of the sort. The reasons for Jews not liking discussions of this sort are actually quite simple:
1) It is insulting. What if I, or anyone else for that matter, came to you and told you that your entire set of spiritual beliefs was wrong, that all of your ancestors going back thousands of years were wrong, that ALL of them who've died since about 1,980 years ago are burning in Hell as we speak - but, hey, don't worry about it, I have JUST the religion for you. Not exactly the kind of thing that one looks forward to upon waking in the morning, is it?
2) The natural result of Jews stubbornly sticking to the faith of their ancestors, despite multiple attempts - ranging from very pleasant face-to-face discussions (which is how it ALWAYS starts) to literal torture - is to remove the veil of hatred in the person who is rebuffed (and the more sincere the belief of the person attempting the conversion, the harsher the reaction when rebuffed). This happened all over Europe. When "nice" didn't work, then more pressure was applied - ridicule them in public, accuse them of Deicide, etc. When that fails to convince them, you go to the next level: Jews are forbidden to own this, they can't be allowed in X profession, they can't have weapons to defend themselves and their families, etc. When that doesn't work, you start fining them, torching their homes or businesses, beating them. Then you start propagandizing the population against them, so that you (the rebuffed initiator of the process) don't have to do all of the hard work yourself, you let the illiterate peasants do the job. Later, you seize their wealth and expel their entire community. Last, of course, if you've skipped the "expel them all" option (or inadvertently acquired a bunch of them through conquest), you kill them in great numbers - but not you, the guy at the end of 10 or 30 or 50 generations of this process, the one who doesn't know anything besides hatred of this group of people who reject his "savior" (who, oh so ironically, was part of this same demonized group and who would likely have resisted any attempt at conversion with equal stubbornness).
THIS is why Jews don't like even to hear about Christians trying to convert us - because it NEVER ends well, quite to the contrary.
And Christianity is the inescapable root of Nazism?
I most specifically did NOT equate Christianity with Nazism. I though that it was pretty clear that I said that it WAS paganism. However, just so that you understand, here IS what I meant: Without the precondition of well over 1,000 years of Church-inspired Jew-hatred in Europe, the ease with which the Nazis were able to plan and implement the Holocaust would NOT have existed - and, IMHO, it would never have occurred. Jews were demonized in Europe LONG, LONG before the Adolf Hitler's 10th great grandfathers were born - so the Nazis didn't do that, did they. But who WAS the power in Europe for most of that 1,000+ year time frame? If your answer was "The Catholic Church" then you'd be correct.
No, the Church never advocated the genocide of the Jews. Probably none except a very small handful of mentally-defective (or possessed) officials within the Church ever did so (or wished it so). But the Church DID demonize the Jews to such a degree, and for so long a period of time, that when the time came there wasn't so much outright resistance and, in fact, there was quite a bit of cooperation. But don't believe me, read it for yourself: "The Anguish of the Jews" by Edward Flannery, a Roman Catholic priest. It was written in 1965, but there is a 2004 updated version if you want to read that. Here is part of what one of the reviewers said:
"At the outset, the author claims that the vast majority of even well educated Christians have been relatively ignorant of what has happened to the Jews throughout history and the culpable involvement of many facets of the Church. Apart from a few recent publications, little having been included about anti-Semitism in Christian history books or social studies.
The author states that, by comparison, the Jews themselves are largely & acutely aware of their painful history in such matters."
The thoughts in the last 2 paragraphs are a large part of what I have been trying to communicate to you.
Sell it somewhere else, you socialist tool pretending to be a Jew.
Socialist tool? Wow, a little touchy, aren't we? As if a thoroughly discredited and theft-based economic theory has got anything to due with the history of Christian-Jewish relations. FYI, my paternal grandfather ran from Russia to this country right after the Communist revolution. His father had all of his property confiscated, except for the house he and his family lived in. My grandfather continued to send charity to his family for the remainder of his life, so miserable was life under the violent socialists (otherwise known as "Communists"). No, I'm no Socialist tool, I despise that entire ideology with every fiber of my being.
As for "pretending" to be a Jew - I don't have to answer to you or any other human being about my faith and my practice, only to G-d Himself. But in the interest of providing full information, I attend an Orthodox Jewish synagogue virtually every Sabbath (and on many other days, as well), I pray daily and I keep kosher at home, and to the greatest extent possible outside my home.
All that I was doing was pointing out the natural result of over 1,000 years of Christian anti-Semitism, the root cause of which is the Jews' rejection of the Christian world view, and you go off the deep end. I get it: if you're catching lots of flak, you must be over the target. I got a lot of your flak, so....
You know, I don't blame any person alive today for the deeds of their parents, grandparents or 34th great grandparents - we are each responsible to each other and to G-d for our own actions. But failing to acknowledge FACTS - even ones that make you cringe with shame - about people or institutions that you care about...well, that's just moral cowardice, probably with a dash of intellectual laziness or just old-fashioned ignorance. Maybe I'm characterizing you wrongly - I not only hope so, but if I am then I humbly apologize to you - but your words say otherwise.
G-d’s promises were made (for the most part, and specifically the one I referenced in Genesis 12:3) to Abraham, Isaac and/or Jacob BASED ON THEIR ACTIONS DURING THEIR LIVES, and were clearly intended to be forever, to inure to ALL of their descendants. Since it was G-d making those promises, and He does not lie like humans, and he knows the future perfectly, it is not only a covenant forever, but it is both logically and theologically ABSURD that He would withdraw His promises. That simply CAN’T happen.
This is because evangelization is (supposed) to be an act of love, sharing what was discovered, or really Who was encountered (Jesus Christ) with his (the Christian’s) fellow man. To ask “just leave us alone†is akin to asking someone to not say anything if they just discover nuclear fusion, or life on another planet, or, well really that God Himself is alive and with us now in this age, in a real, tangible way.
OK, I really do understand that. I also understand that for each person who suddenly "gets it" (from the theological POV), there is great excitement to spread "the good news" - it is their first time, and they aren't really giving it a long-term examination. But we Jews have been through this before, all too many times. This "act of love" in the aftermath of so much misery and suffering inflicted upon us for not being willing to accept the "gift" is not, to us, an act of love. At best, we feel like the lady who keeps getting flowers and candies from a guy who wants to be our boyfriend, but whom we've rebuffed many, many times before because he's not just our type. Oh, and for quite a while the flowers and candies were poisonous, and accompanied by nasty notes, and the guy was stalking us even when we moved to another town. Now he's being nicer - a lot nicer - but he's still not our type, and we're certainly aware of the earlier bad behavior.
To get a better insight, you might want to read "The Anguish of the Jews" by Edward Flannery, a Roman Catholic priest. It was written in 1965, but there is a 2004 updated version if you want to read that. Here is part of what one of the reviewers said:
"At the outset, the author claims that the vast majority of even well educated Christians have been relatively ignorant of what has happened to the Jews throughout history and the culpable involvement of many facets of the Church. Apart from a few recent publications, little having been included about anti-Semitism in Christian history books or social studies.
The author states that, by comparison, the Jews themselves are largely & acutely aware of their painful history in such matters."
Again, thanks for your kind words and thoughts - I wish that many more were like you in that regard. FRegards.
Jews are supposed to be a "light unto the nations," to lead by example. People are supposed to be inspired by our actions, and by G-d's favor to us...with the hope that most of the rest of the world will come to acknowledge G-d's sovereignty over Creation, and act according to His word. This is the role of the Noahide laws (ask Zionist Conspirator about that, he is a Noahide). FYI, G-d forbids us to proselytize - and He must have his reasons.
Things don't always work out that way, us humans being fantastically imperfect beings and all. That is why it will take until the arrival of the Messiah for the rest of the world to acknowledge G-d's rule over everything.
Of course, you and I disagree as to which particular person the Messiah will be, and a few other issues, but I do believe that the ultimate ends of both faiths - lions laying down with sheep, swords being made into plowshares and the rest - are pretty much in line with each other.
It’s OK, all will come to pass .. no man is good, as Moses was not etc.....
peace to you my friend,
His light will show the truth..
One day I was going to Manhattan and jumped in a limo with an open door at La Guardia,,It was almost full of fine Jewish folks and rabi named kahanni`if I spelled it right. His disciples wanted me to leave because they thought I had no right to be there as they stated he was the Messiah. He was nice to me and I said, God sent me here, let’s talk..
we discussed many things, my faith in God through Christ, as his disciples did not want to hear it..can women be priest/rabbi’s was another topic, which when my turn I simply said, God can do anything he wants..of course that brought forth many more conversations, questions of law and discernment.But , what I was most interested in is their approach to discussions about God..to the rabbi, the knowledge of God was how one could describe God’s glory, how grand etc..
I thanked them all for the conversation and hospitality, and told them they will accept that Jesus is Messiah to get into Heaven. I know that rabbi kahanni went on to form the Jewish defense league, but I think was inprisoned for a few years in Israel..I think for militant activities, almost like what folks thought in the days of Christ., the messiah was to liberate Israel from Rome at that time. Interesting,
experience..
It’s OK, all will come to pass .. no man is good, as Moses was not etc.....
peace to you my friend,
His light will show the truth..
One day I was going to Manhattan and jumped in a limo with an open door at La Guardia,,It was almost full of fine Jewish folks and rabi named kahanni`if I spelled it right. His disciples wanted me to leave because they thought I had no right to be there as they stated he was the Messiah. He was nice to me and I said, God sent me here, let’s talk..
we discussed many things, my faith in God through Christ, as his disciples did not want to hear it..can women be priest/rabbi’s was another topic, which when my turn I simply said, God can do anything he wants..of course that brought forth many more conversations, questions of law and discernment.But , what I was most interested in is their approach to discussions about God..to the rabbi, the knowledge of God was how one could describe God’s glory, how grand etc..
I thanked them all for the conversation and hospitality, and told them they will accept that Jesus is Messiah to get into Heaven. I know that rabbi kahanni went on to form the Jewish defense league, but I think was inprisoned for a few years in Israel..I think for militant activities, almost like what folks thought in the days of Christ., the messiah was to liberate Israel from Rome at that time. Interesting,
experience..
Meier Kahane
She’s insane.
Grind your victimization somewhere else. I reject everything you’re making up and throwing at me, got it? Sometimes, in this world, people disagree with you because you’re being a jerk. Novelizing the trek of the Jewish diaspora and dropping it on their personal head in response establishes nothing, except proving that you really are a jerk. Fortunately, I’m long out of college, don’t drink lattes, and have no angst left for you to twist. So you see my dear, I don’t give a damn.
I didn't get past reading replies 100 on this post - but your comments were dead center.
Obviously we disagree on the conclusion (Jesus Christ is Lord), but I agree with you on your observations. There is only one Truth -- not the: as long as you are happy with your path you are A-OK.
And if you believe it - you should share it.
What do Jews think about salvation. Who gets into God’s grace and heaven according to you? If righteousness is found in being a Jew, if you care about people and their eternal fate, why aren’t you trying to help people find your view of life and how to live it pleasing to God. Is it a virtue not to care about other people’s spirituality?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGcEeK9Id0U
Above link to a video of a Muslim woman witnessing to a Jewish fellow. With FR discussion thread below.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3358147/posts
Thanks but no thanks. We believe Moses was a perfect tzadik— a righteous prophet, the greatest, who was G-d’s (metaphoric) back.
Moses= perfect and good.
Shmendrik Finkelstein (your average Jew) = not yet good, but with work can think, speak, and act 100% perfectly. May take a life to master... but that’s what Jews do with their faith. And they keep on working at it.
And all we want the non-Jewish world to observe is 7 general commandments..... you too.
An interesting point, pre-Nicaean Christians, believing Jesus to be holy/a prophet/etc, though not G-d (G-d forbid,) happened to observe these seven commandments nicely.
typo— “....who SAW G-d’s (metaphoric) back.”
“So you see my dear, I don’t give a damn.”
Your perogative, we all have free will.
But so much for caring why others might wish to be left the hell alone, and so much for your “Christian charity” - yours, not that of the decent folks out there.
Michelle Bachmann’s enthusiasm for converting Jews does not bother me one bit. One of her Christian jobs or missions is to convert Jews while a Jew’s mission is to be Jewish, support Israel and to stay this way. She is Jewish-friendly and a big supporter of Israel so I support her and would have donated to her campaigns if I lived in Minnesota
Bachmann Lived on Kibbutz, Staunchly Pro-Israel
http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/MicheleBachmann-Israel-support-Kibbutz/2011/07/01/id/402147/
For Rep. Michele Bachmann, staunch support for Israel is a personal matter: Teenage Bachmann spent a summer working on a kibbutz in Israel. The ........
The promises of God to Israel were all contingent on their obedience, otherwise you would be utterly destroyed, scattered across the 4 corners of the Earth. Hence the Babylonian captivity, and, again, the wrath of God as predicted by Jesus Christ on Jerusalem and the Temple in 70AD on the anniversary of the destruction of the previous temple, leaving some 2 or 3 million Jews dead, and many more sold into slavery. And since that time you've known no prophet, but just dozens of false "Messiahs" whom you've all flocked to, only to be disappointed again and again. And since that time you've mingled your so-called religion with the filth of witchcraft and near constant stupidities from your Rabbis, who teach you how to eat urinal cakes or that you should not pee immediately before sex, lest your children catch epilepsy.
Jesus Christ did what Israel (according to the flesh) could never do-- He kept the law, and through Him all those joined to Him enjoy the promises and love of God:
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
LOL, whatever.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.