China’s Shoddy, Noisy Nuclear Submarines

THE NATIONAL INTEREST ^ | October 7, 2015 | Dave Majumdar

[sukhoi-30mki]

Over the past two decades, the People’s Republic of China has made great advances in its military capabilities. However, it still lags woefully behind in developing nuclear-powered submarines. The problem for the Chinese is that they lack the necessary quieting and propulsion technologies to build anything remotely comparable to an American or Russian nuclear submarine.

Even the newest Chinese Jin-class ballistic nuclear missile submarines and improved Shang-class nuclear attack submarines are louder than 1970s-era Soviet-built Victor III-class attack submarine or the Delta III-class boomer, according to the U.S. Navy’s Office of Naval Intelligence.

In fact, even China’s forthcoming Type 95 will be louder than the Soviet Union’s Project 971 Shchuka-B-class submarines — better know by its NATO reporting name Akula I. Nor is it likely that the Type 96 nuclear-power ballistic missile submarine will be any better. Chinese diesel submarines are, of course, another matter entirely.

But why are the Chinese lagging behind in nuclear submarines when they seem to be advancing in leaps and bounds in almost every other field? I asked several of the best U.S. naval experts why that’s the case.

Jerry Hendrix, a former Navy captain, director of the Defense Strategies and Assessments Program at the Center for a New American Security had this to say:

It’s a two-part answer. One, noise-quieting technologies is one area where we have been particularly careful not to let out. Still, the Russians have not made any prohibitions against sharing some particular technologies and their export Kilos are pretty quiet so that leads you to the second answer: The Chinese maritime manufacturing techniques are not yet adapted to submarines. Their stuff is still pretty noisy. That’s all I can really go into. Bryan McGrath is the deputy director of the Hudson Institute’s Center for American Seapower and the managing director of the The FerryBridge Group naval consultancy. He’s also a retired Navy commander. He had this to say:

China’s nuclear submarine program lags other areas of its naval prowess for two primary reasons. The first is that until twenty years ago, designing and building nuclear submarines simply was not a priority. The second reason is related to the first, and that is the fact that designing and building nuclear submarines is an extremely difficult technical undertaking. That they decided to feature nuclear submarines twenty years ago did not instantly result in the requisite skills to effectively and efficiently build them. These will take time, focus and very likely, a stepped-up industrial espionage program to attain. Bryan Clark is a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments. He was a special assistant to the chief of naval operations and was a Navy submarine officer. He offered his take:

Nuclear submarines have not been a priority for China, since the advantages they offer over diesel or air-independent propulsion (AIP) submarines (greater endurance, speed, and capacity) are not as significant for the missions they have used their submarines to do, such as coastal defense against enemy surface ships and surveillance.

Current Chinese diesel submarines like the Song are not as advanced as their European counterparts, but they are effective in this role and appear to be reliable enough for those missions; China’s Kilo-class submarines are able to carry the very lethal SS-N-27 anti-ship cruise missile. China’s newest AIP submarine, the Yuan, is reported to have modern combat systems and be able to deploy missiles, torpedoes, and mines as well. The recent increase in emphasis on nuclear submarines is coming as China attempts to increase its reach and role in geopolitical affairs.

Today, they are developing an SSBN and a new class of nuclear attack submarine in line with their effort to deploy a “blue-water” navy and desire to have a second strike nuclear capability on par with other great powers. Andrew Erickson, an associate professor at the U.S. Naval War College and frequent TNI contributor, summed it up succinctly: “One word: propulsion!”

“Submarines suitable for comprehensive blue water operations must be nuclear-powered, energy-dense and quiet,” Erickson wrote recently for TNI. “China has struggled in these and related areas. And it can’t simply draw on its burgeoning civilian nuclear industry because the technologies and skill sets are so different.”

China can’t use the lessons learnt on its civilian land-based high-temperature gas-cooled reactors (HTGRs) because those systems lack the energy density for naval applications.

[353FMG]

Just hope that the American sub is not under the command of a muzzie.

[SampleMan]

Fortunately for them, word is the US Navy’s new P-8 can’t do ASW.

That's news to me, and I work with the program and the active duty squadrons.

[Dick Bachert]

Actually, they're American depth charge and torpedo targets. But we'll have to have our own navy.

We must IMMEDIATELY send a task force of these mighty vessels – now the standard warship in Obama's “New Navy” – into the Med to deal with those pesky Ruskies.

Armed with a single M2 .50 caliber Browning, this much feared naval vessel carries up to 30 rounds of full cardboard jacketed paper bag piercing ammunition. It is the first in an entirely new naval architecture class -- technically, “clitoral” (not to be confused with “littoral”) -- being pushed on the Pentagon by the defense minded wussies in the Obama Administration as a cost-saving measure. If you look closely, you can see the heavy-duty seat restraint which prevents the helmsman/gunner shown here – Seaman 4th Class Kenneth “Kamakazi” Kowalski – from leaping from the vessel prior to engaging the enemy. The 12 V trolling motor – which lacks a reverse function -- propels this sophisticated craft forward at a top speed of 4 knots. Reverse travel – at approximately 35 knots -- is achieved by firing the Browning.

The no-bid contract to build 300 of these fearsome warships was awarded to the Obama-Soros-Emanuel Shipbuilding and Stormdoor Manufacturing Company (formerly General Dynamics) and will be administered by trusted Obama associate, Chicago Mayor and former Chief-of-Staff Rahm Emanuel who commented that, at $12 million each, they are a bargain. Constructed exclusively at the company’s facility in Kenya with major sub-component production (rivets and miscellaneous fasteners) at the company’s Harlem and Skokie plants. Delivery and sea trials of 100 of these began in 2013 with the remaining 200 to follow as soon as the subcontractors’ funds are safely in the contractor's numbered Swiss account.

[Straight Vermonter]

You beat me to it!

[tophat9000]

Who caption that drawing?...zinc chromate primer is Not a non skid material... it’s anti corrosion

[Lower Deck]

Fortunately for them, word is the US Navy’s new P-8 can’t do ASW.

And I'm all in favor of letting the Chinese continue to believe that.

[Lower Deck]

What if the noise is a head-fake by the inscrutable Chinese?

A quiet submarine can't fake being a noisy one. There are a lot of different sources for noise and some submarines, like the one pictured, are noisy due to design.

[Vinnie]

Remember it well. Have never bought a Toshiba product since.
IMO that debacle is one of two Reagan decisions I disagreed with.
He should have lifted Toshiba’s import license.

[Undecided 2012]

hey great pic one thing I miss is FR used to have great graphics. My favorite was Osama bin Laden porking Kerry back in 2003

[JoeFromSidney]

What if the noise is a head-fake by the inscrutable Chinese?

I wondered that too.

"For ways that are dark, and for tricks that are vain, the Heathen Chinee is peculiar." Bret Harte.

[BwanaNdege]

Fortunately for them, word is the US Navy’s new P-8 can’t do ASW.

Now you know that NOTHING has been able to do ASW since the P2-V!

If you can't open that square back hatch, how are you gonna' chuck out the wooden block with the long burning smoke?

P-8 does not have that!

P-8 doesn't have the cool observer seat in the nose bubble to ride in during Zuni runs on the aforementioned long burning smoke block!

I'll bet the P-8 doesn't even have the upper wing skin running THROUGH the fuselage, so when you're heading aft (and don't know what you're doing), you end up sliding face first in a heap into the comm station.

The P-8 doesn't even have a MAD man!

[Patron92]

Coffee on the wing beam.

[BwanaNdege]

Coffee on the wing beam.

"A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away..."

(well, at least 1966, VP-24, NAS Norfolk, IIRC)