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To: Cronos

But the Books of the Maccabees are not scripture, they were excluded from the Hebrew canon, why do you think they were so excluded?


9 posted on 10/06/2015 4:19:13 AM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V)
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To: Hostage
This is a good, simple, online, starting point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_Old_Testament_canon

with a link to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudepigrapha

Basically, Luther agreed with the Jews (who asserted 'cessation of inspiration' because they were used so successfully by Christians to convert Jews) and he dropped them from his translation. His primary initial reasoning was that they supported doctrines, in whole or in part, that he didn't agree with. I personally don't think much of Luther's argument against these OT books due to the wealth of prophesies about Christ in them. It's at least worth noting that Luther also wanted to drop Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation, from the NT.

The arguments over whether he was justified in doing so will never end and you can get into as scholarly or as heated a debate (even heated and scholarly debates) over the matter as you like at the drop of a hat. Calvin, like Luther, had his own opinions of what should be included in the Bible and is worth looking into if you're going to pursue why the canon has changed since Christ. Given that He didn't mention anything that needed to be thrown out of the Bible in use while he was on earth, I actually don't understand arguments over the canon. It's too much like rolling your own like a lot of cults do for me to be comfortable with not just sticking to what was in the Septuagint (which I can never spell without checking first).

If you want to do further research it’s tough to find something without an agenda. I think just downloading the following book from the Google thing is a good start because it’s exhaustive enough without much of an agenda (as I recall) and can be very useful for other things as well. Especially for seeing how the usage of words has changed since 1910.

“The popular and critical Bible encyclopædia and Scriptural dictionary” - Herbert Lockwood Willett

http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC05742122&id=rl3lcbLkHV0C&pg=PA521&lpg=PA521&dq=luther+%22are+useful+and+good+to+read%22#v=onepage&q=luther%20%22are%20useful%20and%20good%20to%20read%22&f=false

Regards

10 posted on 10/06/2015 5:11:58 AM PDT by Cronos (ObamaÂ’s dislike of Assad is not based on AssadÂ’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: Hostage
I think at the very least these give an idea about the interesting happenings between the return of the exiles and the Birth of Christ, laying down the historical background. That's how I initially picked up these books.

And, interestingly, when we read this Chapter 1 and Chapter 2 of 1 Maccabees, we read how Antiochus defiled the Holy Temple and put an abomination in there and the righteous Jews fled to the mountains.

And this connects with Matthew 24:15-20
[15] When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand.
[16] Then they that are in Judea, let them flee to the mountains:
[17] And he that is on the housetop, let him not come down to take any thing out of his house:
[18] And he that is in the field, let him not go back to take his coat.
[19] And woe to them that are with child, and that give suck in those days.
[20] But pray that your flight be not in the winter, or on the sabbath.
And you see the parallels in 1 Macc 1.34 "And they took the women captive, and the children, and the cattle they possessed" and 39 "And they shed innocent blood round about the sanctuary, and defiled the holy place"
and 1 MAcc 2:32-38
And forthwith they went out towards them, and made war against them on the sabbath day, [33] And they said to them: Do you still resist? come forth, and do according to the edict of king Antiochus, and you shall live. [34] And they said: We will not come forth, neither will we obey the king's edict, to profane the sabbath day.
[35] And they made haste to give them battle.
[36] But they answered them not, neither did they cast a stone at them, nor stopped up the secret places,
[37] Saying: Let us all die in our innocency: and heaven and earth shall be witnesses for us, that you put us to death wrongfully.
[38] So they gave them battle on the sabbath: and they were slain with their wives, and their children, and their cattle, to the number of a thousand persons


Jesus was no doubt drawing on the historical memory of the Jews
11 posted on 10/06/2015 5:12:26 AM PDT by Cronos (ObamaÂ’s dislike of Assad is not based on AssadÂ’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: Hostage
Remember scripture is written under divine inspiration.

the book of Kings and Judges are cases in point and if you look at the Psalms by David or the Proverbs or books by Solomon -- were these two Prophets? Not really, however, they were inspired by God to write what they wrote

Also, do note 2 Macc. 15:11-16 where Judah Maccabees gets his prophetic vision

12 posted on 10/06/2015 5:13:28 AM PDT by Cronos (ObamaÂ’s dislike of Assad is not based on AssadÂ’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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