Posted on 09/26/2015 6:11:19 AM PDT by GIdget2004
Donald Trump is calling the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) a "disaster" and vowing to renegotiate or break the deal if elected president.
"It's a disaster," Trump told CBS's Scott Pelley in an interview airing Sunday on "60 Minutes." "We will either renegotiate it or we will break it because you know every agreement has an end.  "Every agreement has to be fair. Every agreement has a defraud claim. We're being defrauded by all these countries," Trump continued.
Pressed on whether he supports free trade, Trump responded, "We need fair trade, not free trade. We need fair trade it's got to be fair."
(Excerpt) Read more at thehill.com ...
That question was answered upthread, BobL. Shout and curse all you want, but you’re just not making a very good impression.
“but think they served a valid purpose back in the day, when employer abuses were very real, even life-threatening.”
We have lawsuits, OSHA, EPA, and hundreds of state agencies and none of them care if a plant is unionized.
Times have changed in since 100 years ago - and yes, I agree, workers were treated like crap back then...and unions definitely served a purpose...back then.
It is insane to be in favor of off shoring a factory, even to kill a union. That is like saying the killing a cancer patient is curing them.
Repeat it please, then. I still haven’t seen your explanation of what happened in the Northeast and Midwest, or what good unions do when it comes to trying to operate a manufacturing plant.
And yes, there is a difference between answering a question and claiming you answered the same question some time in the past.
Bob if management closes down a NON UNION manufacturing facility and off shores it to Asa, what good would outlawing unions do in that case? It is irrelevant. Most factories that have been off shored were non union to begin with.
I’ll just turn the soapbox over to you, BobL. Have at it.
Trump has said he wants to gut worthless Gov. departments like EPA and Education. It’s a beginning...
I admitted earlier that there are plenty of CRAPPY MANAGERS at non-union plants and that non-union plants get shut down.
So plants get shut down without unions wrecking them...and plants get shut down BECAUSE of unions wrecking them. There isn’t anything that government can do to assure decent management...plants will always shut down because of it - but we don’t need to be forcing them to close for other reasons - like excessive regulations, and yes, unions. That is something that can be controlled and they serve NO PURPOSE these days, other than to destroy our manufacturing base.
Also it’s not insane to off-shore factories to kill a union, it’s worked out JUST GREAT for many companies. What is insane is allowing what amounts to a TOTALLY UNNEEDED tax in this country just to produce things here - at least environmental and safety taxes can make a moral case (at least to some extent). Unions simply provide NOTHING GOOD to manufacturing.
Unions provide NOTHING GOOD for anything, just like the government it takes an act of God to rid yourself of a hire mistake!!!!
These companies should have to pay a tariff to have access to US markets. I am protectionist Bob. Like the founders, I believe in US manufacturing and it should be done here, even if the management is bad and even if they have union workers.
Off shoring helps the stock holders and the corporate bottom line. It does nothing for the consumer because that reduced manufacturing cost is not passed on to the consumer. The big loser is the taxpayer that has to shoulder the burden an idled workforce.
“Bob if management closes down a NON UNION manufacturing facility and off shores it to Asa, what good would outlawing unions do in that case? It is irrelevant. Most factories that have been off shored were non union to begin with.”
I think that I was clear in my recent posts that unions are not the ONLY problem facing manufacturing plants, but they are a HUGE PROBLEM. There are plenty of other costs to doing business in this country beyond union, which is why plants leave the country.
But again, my point is that people are going to be VERY ANGRY when their plasmas go from $400 to $2000, in large part due to unions....if plasmas had ALWAYS cost $2000, then it wouldn’t matter - but it will matter nw. My point is that people have NO CLUE just how cheap things are because of off-shoring - and whoever ends off-shoring, be it Trump or anyone else, better be ready for some SERIOUS BLOWBACK unless they take some major steps to reduce the cost of producing stuff here (including unions, of course) and even then, we’ll still end up paying at least $1000 for that plasma that used to be $400.
But just to be clear, I’m still against off-shoring because I fear that this country is way too dependent on others for vital products...I’m actually with you guys, maybe for a different reason, but I plan to vote for Trump (for sure) and I’m willing to take the higher prices associated with bring our manufacturing back home...I just hope we do what we can to cushion the price shock.
We’re not that far apart...I’m just looking at the blowback of trying to bring back manufacturing by simply closing borders. There are way too many impediments to producing affordable items in this country, and unions are a big part, a huge part.
...and so are EPA regulations. I’ve been to China, I know EXACTLY why we have clean air and cheap products - we sent all our pollution there (believe me it unreal, much, much worse and widespread than Los Angeles ever was) and the manufacturing that creates it. We better be ready for some increased pollution if we want those plants back, or we will PAY THROUGH THE TEETH, that is the flip side to imposing trade barriers without taking steps to make manufacturing economical again here. We don’t need people dropping in the streets due to pollution (like they’re almost doing in China now), but we better be ready to loosen up a bit.
Here is the problem Bob, we are talking about labor. Big screen TV's are made in highly automated factories. Labor is a SMALL component in the cost per TV screen. Although I do not know the exact figure the industry average on the high end with union labor is 8%. On the low end labor is about 3% if you use Asian labor. So for a $400 plasma made in China about $12.00 of labor went into that plasma.
Now let's theoretically move that factory to a UNION state and use union labor. This would be worst case, labor per TV would be $32.00 an increase of $20.00 per plasma TV. So it would retail for $420.00. THERE IS NOW WAY A PLASMA TV IS GOING TO COST $2000.00 under any scenario.
Umm, ok. You make money of GloBULLism. Sell out opinion is of little value.
Bob,
I think we should explore your relationship with China, why you are so pro off shoring, why you hate unions and non union shops equally and what your connections are to international corporate trade deals. Come clean Bob. You spilled the beans now clean up your mess.
You’re talking FINAL ASSEMBLY - I’m talking of the cost from mining operations to component assembly and then final assembly, not to mention the cost of machinery which includes huge amounts of labor.
So, yes, if we REALLY want to make the plasmas ourselves, labor will be a HUGE COST. If we want to import the major components and just do final assembly here, then you are right, labor will be a small factor.
I actually don’t know where we’ll end up...I prefer to build everything from the ground up, which is why I worry so much about labor (and other) costs here.
LOL...where am I so “pro-offshoring”? I do concur on being anti-union, though, you got me there!
Also, I didn’t know it was illegal for a FReeper to visit China. You may not know this, but there is a LOT to see there and not everyone goes there on business.
You do tend to read a lot into a simple posting, but then I know you’re playing with me.
“Umm, ok. You make money of GloBULLism. Sell out opinion is of little value.”
Oh spare us with drawing conclusions based a person here visiting a country on a VERY CHEAP travel deal.
This is a lie, we are talking about labor, mining is mining the raw materials case the same whether the factory is in China or Arkansas. The machinery is made where? It costs the same whether made in Japan or the USA. You are grasping Bob. the Free Traitor™ lies are coming out.
The only thing I could learn from those zipperheaded dung eaters is how to fool Americans, they are good at that.
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