Posted on 08/04/2015 6:21:28 PM PDT by Jan_Sobieski
The Internet has been buzzing about how discrimination against the Irish was a myth. All it took was a high schooler to prove them wrong. Rebecca Fried had no intention of preserving the record of a persecuted people whose strife was ready to be permanently written off in the eyes of history as exaggerated, imagined, or even invented.
That's because Rebecca was too busy trying to get through the 8th grade. In 2002, University of Illinois-Chicago history professor Richard J. Jensen printed “No Irish Need Apply: A Myth of Victimization.” His abstract begins: “Irish Catholics in America have a vibrant memory of humiliating job discrimination, which featured omnipresent signs proclaiming ‘Help Wanted—No Irish Need Apply!’ No one has ever seen one of these NINA signs because they were extremely rare or nonexistent.”
In short, those famous “No Irish Need Apply” signs—ones that proved Irish Americans faced explicit job discrimination in the 19th and 20th centuries? Professor Jensen came to the blockbuster conclusion that they never existed...
(Excerpt) Read more at thedailybeast.com ...
Wow. I’m boggled that a History prof at a good school like U of C would actually posit something so absolutely wrong and so easily disproven.
Irish immigrants most certainly did face discrimination, along with many of the other groups (Italians, Eastern Europeans, etc.) that came over in the 2nd big wave of immigration. Part of it stemmed from the fact that most Irish were of the Catholic faith.
Also, there were signs worse than “No Irish Need Apply.” More than one late 19th/early 20th century boarding house or other public establishment was known to put up signs stating “No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish.”
I disputed a extremely liberal law professor from the University of Wisconsin who was speaking about minimum wage.
I sent him a conservative well written scholarly article from Ohio State that backed my position, and he didn’t reply.
I give credit for Prof Jensen that at least he replied, even though it was very weak.
Police prisoner transport vans are known as “Paddy wagons” in the northeast, and it ain’t because they’re padded inside.
From the article:
” “From the first, my responses to Jensen’s claims had been strongly negative, as were those of a few other scholars, but, for various reasons, most historians, social scientists, journalists, et cetera accepted or even embraced Jensen’s arguments,” says Miller.”
Miller (the young girl’s supporter) seems surprised that Jensen’s bogus argument was so readily accepted; apparently, he failed to realize than in most of modern academia, victimization is an exclusively non-white province: among the liberal elites, when it comes to claims of discrimination, no Caucasians need apply.
A number of Irish turned to crime. It was not too difficult to see how a mostly Protestant majority would look down on these strange looking people with a disliked religion. Eventually the Irish made themselves into typical Americans. Except for certain physical traits, the Irish today are indistinguishable in their habits from other Americans.
As someone of part Irish heritage what some Americans might have done to some of my Irish ancestors affects me not the slightest. The people who may have discriminated against my ancestors have been dead for more than a century.
The point is none of that goes on today. We should remember history but not let it affect our lives remembering past grievances.
When a couple of hundred Irish soldiers in the US Army deserted and fought for Mexico during the Mexican-American War (the San Patricios), it wasn’t because they were treated too well. The US government heeded the advice of Irish leaders and saw to it that the next time they went into combat (in the Civil War), they did so under Irish officers (instead of aristocratic WASPs) - and they fought well.
If this assmunch wants to erase some inconvenient truths about hardships suffered by others, he needs to find a softer target; the Irish still have numbers (breeding as their detractors complained they did), and they were always a literate population - these stories weren’t passed down orally by shamans.
Irish immigrants were never persecuted because they are white.
Only brown and black and yellow immigrants can be persecuted.
Therefore, it never happened, and those who say it did are racists.
Isn’t it fun to be a liberal?
Several comments are relevant.
I. In a free country, employees could hire or not hire any prospective workers for any reason whatsoever. Before the 1960s, that’s how it was in the United States.
II. Many, many employers were happy to hire the Irish, because they wanted cheap labor, and you could hire immigrant Irish for less in those days.
III. Here is the link for Jensen’s original article
http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-irish.htm
which is actually very detailed and documented, it’s not some kind of PC hit piece.
IV. Now, if this girl can prove that part of what Jensen says is not correct, well, more power to her. That’s what
academic give and take should be all about. But it should be over the evidence, not some kind of PC power play.
Several comments are relevant.
I. In a free country, employees could hire or not hire any prospective workers for any reason whatsoever. Before the 1960s, that’s how it was in the United States.
II. Many, many employers were happy to hire the Irish, because they wanted cheap labor, and you could hire immigrant Irish for less in those days.
III. Here is the link for Jensen’s original article
http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-irish.htm
which is actually very detailed and documented, it’s not some kind of PC hit piece.
IV. Now, if this girl can prove that part of what Jensen says is not correct, well, more power to her. That’s what
academic give and take should be all about. But it should be over the evidence, not some kind of PC power play.
My father, raised Prespertain married my mother, an Irish Catholic years ago. His mother was not happy at the time and considered it a “mixed marriage”. But by the time my grandmother died, she loved my mother as much as she loved her own children.
That’s how stuff happens.
I’m of Irish descent and feel I am due reparations for the way my ancestors were treated. Where do I apply?
“Irish immigrants were never persecuted because they are white.”
So you might think; but then again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_people#Black_Irish
Get in line right behind me - I'm Irish, too!
I’m thinkin’ the Professor has the gift o’ Blarney. And the little Colleen could charm the apples off a tree.
“I saw a sign in a cafe window in London in 1995 saying “No Micks”. 1995!!!!”
I had absolutely no idea how much the English and Irish hate (really, seriously hate) each other until I spent some time with a person from Ireland. What I found interesting, is that apparently they can tell English and Irish apart just by their facial appearance (never mind accents and or clothing). My friend could also do numerous imitations of British accents, all from different regions and cities in England. My Midwestern ear can only discern a few.
Thank you. Well said.
Frankly it’s been PC to constantly bolster Irish as some fantastic greatest bunch of people for more than a century. Even early films and definitely early music here had a celebratory (not to mention, directly derived) bent for Irish.
Any problems there might have been? Please let’s not forget Tammany Hall and unions.
How did they "verify actual signs?" probably by photographs, einstein. How would you verify something from the 1800's? Geez.
Yes, I guess, but the links don’t work.
http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-irish.htm#FOOT18
This is Jensen’s entry. Even shows the same ad copied in this thread.
Photographs? Just how many photographs? And what does “15”, as cited in the text, prove?
Please see River Hawk’s very rational points.
He was not at U of Chicago, he was at U of Illinois-Chicago, a second rate branch of a mediocre state system.
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