What rights does congress have in a sovereign nation.
The southern states backed out of the compact...a divorce, if you will. The US Congress meant nothing at that point. Yet the confederacy still wanted to PAY for the forts...because they wanted the divorce to be peaceful. Take a read of era immediately prior to the civil war...and ask yourself which side was beating the war drums, and which side just wanted to be left the heck alone.
Mark Levine made a great point the other day about a SCOTUS case that ripped from the states the ability to set their own congressional districts, and gave that authority to the federal government. He asked “Do you really think the states voluntarily entered into an agreement, in which a federal government would have that authority?” The answer is, of course not...and the SCOTUS decision was wrong and not in line with the intentions of the original framers. The case dealt with Arizona, I believe. Two years ago, the reconstruction era federal boot on southern election officials was lifted...and now its been pressed down again, this time on the necks of all the states.
But his argument could just as easily apply to the confederacy. Do you really think the southern states signed up for this? A system in which they we held in a compact at the point of a gun? I don’t think so.
Neither does this guy:
“If they [the founding fathers] had foreseen it, the probabilities are they would have sanctioned the right of a State or States to withdraw rather than that there should be war between brothers.” - U.S. Grant
What right does one sovereign nation have to seize the property of another sovereign nation? Isn't that a declaration of war?
The southern states backed out of the compact...a divorce, if you will.
A divorce requires the approval of both parties, and is done in a court of law. What the Southern states did was walk out.
Yet the confederacy still wanted to PAY for the forts...because they wanted the divorce to be peaceful
Yet they didn't. They walked out first. Seized what they wanted first. And then might of paid for things after the fact. How could the U.S. trust that they were sincere?
Take a read of era immediately prior to the civil war...and ask yourself which side was beating the war drums, and which side just wanted to be left the
I would say that the South had been threatening secession for some time by any means necessary. The war drums were theirs.
But his argument could just as easily apply to the confederacy. Do you really think the southern states signed up for this? A system in which they we held in a compact at the point of a gun? I don’t think so.
Obviously they didn't think they would be held at the point of a gun. They went and did it, walking away from debt and taking everything they could get their hands on. There was no gun pointed at them until they started their war. Then they got more guns than they expected.
Neither does this guy...
Then there's this guy:
"A rightful secession requires the consent of the others, or an abuse of the compact, absolving the seceding party from the obligations imposed by it." - James Madison
The Constitution gives Congress authority over Federal properties, period.
lacrew: "The southern states backed out of the compact...a divorce, if you will.
The US Congress meant nothing at that point."
Because, like all Democrats, they cared nothing for the Constitution except when it served their own purposes.
lacrew: "Take a read of era immediately prior to the civil war...and ask yourself which side was beating the war drums, and which side just wanted to be left the heck alone."
In fact, every provocation for war came from secessionist states, the military assault on Fort Sumter was ordered by the Confederate President, and a formal declaration of war was passed by the Confederate Congress and signed on May 6, 1861.
War was provoked, launched and formally declared by the Confederacy.
lacrew: "Do you really think the southern states signed up for this?
A system in which they we held in a compact at the point of a gun?"
But there were no guns -- zero, zip, nada -- pointed at Deep South states when they began declaring secession (December 1860).
And there were no guns -- zero, zip, nada -- pointed at the Deep South states when they formed their new Confederacy (February 1861).
And there were no guns -- zero, zip, nada -- pointed at the Confederacy when they provoked, launched and then formally declared war on the United States (May 6, 1861).
The first Union Army guns to kill a Confederate soldier came at the Battle of Big Bethel, June 10, 1861.