Posted on 07/01/2015 9:02:17 PM PDT by celmak
The inner democrat really comes out when it comes to the confederate battle flag. Those who wave it say they support your right to free speech as long as it agrees with us. Because if you disagree with us then you’re just uneducated. I’d expect that from democrats. It’s sad to hear that from republicans defending a flag born by democrats waved in battle against them and the United States. And I agree that democrat voters who oppose said flag are uneducated about it because their party created it in the 1st place, but republican voters who oppose it know why we do.
Well said.
yet nobody wanted to ban Jody Foster.
Good one.
Let’s also not forget, FWIW, that Lincolns favorite song was...
wait for it...
Dixie !
There are nitwits on CNN asking that very question, God help us.
So when the Emancipation Proclamation said, "And I hereby enjoin upon the people so declared to be free to abstain from all violence, unless in necessary self-defence; and I recommend to them that, in all cases when allowed, they labor faithfully for reasonable wages" it was actually a code for engage in slave uprisings?
Ideologically the two parties have flipped since the mid 19th century. The original Republicans were wild eyed agitators and secessionists. Very radical. The Democrats of the mid 19th century represented the status quo and Constitutional conservatism.
Around here in central va u see the all the time.
So Lincoln was for slavery before he was against slavery. Typical scummy politician.
I had no idea how much the CBF bothered idiots like you. I need to get a bigger one.
“A dopehead loser from a broken family killed a bunch of people. Have you ever paused to ponder why on earth you are even discussing the rebel flag?”
The dopehead loser’s actions had nothing to do with the Confederate flag but it provided an impetus for the libs to go batshit. It’s what they do. As Rahm Emmanuel said, “You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it’s an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.”
Something keeps being left out of the discussion. The flag in question is being flown NOT on the capital dome, but at a confederate memorial. It was placed these with the consent (an aye vote) from even Rep Clementa Pickney (killed in Charleston). The men represented by that memorial DIED for that symbol and taking that flag down from a sacred place would be like removing crosses from Christian grave sites. Let’s not revise history, we expect that from ISIS and the Taliban, not from American citizens. Honor Pickney’s compromise...another moment of history. Go solve world peace...leave history alone.
In yards or on local government buildings or both?
private mostly.
“Other than the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendment, what “avalanche of ammendments” are you talking about?”
Oh, the 14th and 15th in particular constitute that avalanche. From abortion to gay marriage, we have felt the impact of the 14th ever since. And up until just two years ago, the 15th made the southern states crawl forward and bow before their federal masters and beg permission to make their own voting laws.
“Yes, the cotton gin was part of that industrial revolution, but it increased slavery.”
You picked one waypoint along the road to industrialization...but not the end state. Cotton is now picked by machines and my original point is valid.
“The demorats began firing on Fort Sumter in January of 1860 – months before Lincoln took office and could do anything”
First of all, they fired on Fort Sumter in 1861...not 1860. And it wasn’t in January, it was in April. And it wasn’t before Lincoln took office - it occurred a month after he took office. So please revise your history lesson.
Now as to why. By April, South Carolina had been separated from the Union for 4 months. It would be like having a Mexican army base in Dallas, today. The south and north negotiated the abandonment of many federal forts in that 4 month period. But there was no successful negotiation with Sumter. And the last straw...Lincoln made known his intention to re-supply the fort. Just imagine Mexico announcing a supply train was headed through Texas to supply their Dallas fort. South Carolina had decided to bow out of the compact of states, and was no longer part of the Union. The characterization of firing on Sumter as the aggressive catalyst of the war ignores the true situation. The aggressive act was maintaining an outpost on what was now foreign soil. IOW, the civil war is much more complicated than the sound byte history books you have read.
Now I understand your point...you don’t like the historical switcheroo that has occurred with both slavery and the civil rights movement, when it comes to the democrats. But why on earth join the anti-flag chorus at this time. To me its practically obscene...politicians are standing on a soap box propped up with dead bodies when they preach on this issue. The flag has gradually been pulled from statehouse domes over the years, and that trend, born from legislative and referendum action is likely to continue...IOW the people are deciding to leave the flag in the history books.
But now the rabble want to erase history, and act like the flag never existed. That type of stuff seems to go hand in hand with totalitarian dictators, and I want no part of it.
Nice try, but I don’t accept your diversion regarding the Revolutionary War.
Please explain to me how ANYTHING that was done during the Revolutionary War affects the reason why the South seceded and started the Civil War.
The question in front of us is, why did the South start the War that killed more Americans than any other war, and the answer is slavery.
You know, the North didn’t fight the war to end slavery, it fought it to maintain the Union. It was the South that fought it for slavery. My only point is, don’t try to dress up the reasons for the South seceding with State’s Rights, or self-determination, or any other rubbish. Just show some testicular fortitude, and man up and admit the South (not the North) fought due to slavery.
Actually, emancipation for the slaves of DC was first proposed to Congress in December of 1861, and over the bitter opposition of slaveholders, it was passed in April of 1862. In July 1862, Congress passed the Second Confiscation and Militia Act, which freed the slaves of any slaveowner serving in the confederate army. In September 1862, Lincoln issued the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation, which would go into effect on January 1, 1863. The idea of emancipating the slaves was raised long before the halfway point of the war.
So if Cuba began to shell Guantanamo, that would be fine with you.
I would be real interested in hearing more about these "negotiations". Who were the principals? Do you have a link to historical evidence of these negotiations?
From what I've read when the southern states rebelled they immediately began seizing anything that they desired. These were federal installations that weren't the property of the rebelling states and they had no moral or legal right to seize them.. Buchanan, the lame-ass, lame-duck bleated that the south had no right - but beyond that said very little.
The following represents a list of federal properties which fell to the rebels outside of any negotiations:
Alabama seizures:
United States Arsenal at Mount Vernon
Fort Morgan
Fort Gaines
Arkansas seizures:
United States Arsenal at Little Rock
United States ordnance stores at Napoleon
United States subsistence stores at Pine Bluff
Fort Smith
Georgia seizures:
Fort Pulaski
United States Arsenal at Augusta
Oglethorpe Barracks
Fort Jackson
Dahlonega Mint
Louisiana seizures:
United States Arsenal at Baton Rouge
Baton Rouge Barrack
Fort Jackson
Fort Saint Philip
Fort Pike
Fort Macomb
United States paymaster’s office at New Orleans
New Orleans Mint
Mississippi seizure:
Fort Massachusetts on Ship Island
Florida seizures:
United States Arsenal at Apalachicola
Fort Marion
Barrancas Barracks
Fort Barrancas
Fort McRee
Pensacola Navy Yard (Warrington Ship Yard)
Missouri seizures:
United States Arsenal at Liberty
United States ordnance stores at Kansas City
North Carolina seizures:
Fort Johnston
Fort Caswell
Fort Macon
United States Arsenal at Fayetteville
Charlotte Mint
South Carolina seizures:
Fort Sumter
Castle Pinckney
Fort Moultrie
United States Arsenal at Charleston
Fort Johnson
Texas seizures:
United States Arsenal at San Antonio
San Antonio Barracks
Camp Verde
Fort Clark
The truth is that taking down the flag is the absolutely least substantive thing politicians can do in the wake of the Charleston shootings, and therefore is the thing that they will do. Anything else would be hard and even more unpopular.
Excellent point, but don't forget to include racial quotas and anchor baby automatic citizenship as dependent upon the 14th Amendment.
So, by cellmate's "logic" the modern Republican Party is responsible for most of today's disasters.
The 19th Century social engineers using their "Washington knows best" attitude forced a "fundamental transformation" of America. Of course they immediately lost interest, leaving the 14th Amendment to fester until their latter day statist offspring rediscovered it.
Cellmate also fails to appreciate the almost total reversal of party labeling. Lincoln won 17 states in 1860. In 2000, GW Bush only won one of those states (NH) - that's about a 94% turnaround. Cellmate must be really perplexed by the Ford Thunderbird's rebranding - it's a two seater. No, wait, it's a four seater. Hold on, it's a two seater again.
If we are going to apply cellmate's "principle" as to party responsibility - here's two that never get examined.
1. The economic plight of blacks today can in part be attributed to the slow recovery of the South after the Civil War. It took almost 50 years for Southern per capita income to match 1860 levels. That recovery was hindered by insufficient capital to rebuild. Where did that capital go - in part, to federal subsidies for overbuilding of railroads and the corruption that accompanied it. Tight money to repay the war debt and accompanying overly strict banking regulations starved all rural areas of cash needed to efficiently transact business.
2. Union veterans pension vote buying program. This was and is the largest welfare program ever developed and provided the intellectual basis for social security. Unwilling to be satisfied with pension levels granted after previous wars, northern politicians continually expanded the program and invited massive fraud. By the 1890s, CW pensions accounted for more than 40% of federal spending.
Finally, Mr. Morally Superior got twin benefits from slavery:
1. Plantation raised cotton provided the foreign exchange that built industrial America. The financial markets, insurance, and shipping were all ready to go when manufacturing needed them in the late 19th Century. The development of management techniques and scientific/technological advances growing out of the early- to mid-19th Century textile industry would not have been ready without cotton.
2. The South accepted defeat and overwhelming percentages became loyal Americans again. What could have become the Balkans instead became the most patriotic part of the country, setting the stage for the American Century. The Great Reconciliation required a tiny bit of ambiguity - each side allowed the other side to have their heroes and their symbols.
Having garnered the benefits at zero cost to themselves, cellmate, Sharpton, Obama, Haley, Romney and a cast of thousands now blithely engage in selective history - and in so doing display a nasty streak.
The May 2000 compromise to move the flag to its present location gets totally overlooked today. At the time, I doubted the leftists' ability to live by a solemn agreement (and I was proven right), but was nevertheless hopeful that people of good will on both sides would build on the example (wrong).
Instead I have been reminded of pre-Civil War compromises that the statists immediately denounced in their rush to the next political opportunity. And I was further reminded of Israeli-Palestinian "land for peace" deals. It never works out when the sincere party gives up something tangible (Gaza, California statehood) for a promise from insincere parties (a halt to terrorist attacks on Israeli citizens, enforcement of the fugitve slave laws).
If you were looking for a patriotic American, where would you look: a Confederate veteran in 1890 - or a community organizer from today?
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