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To: DiogenesLamp

“Yes, but Hawaii is a weird state. Probably no other state will issue birth certificates to children not born there. Hawaii will.’

Hawaii Administrative Rules require the birth certificate for a foreign born to list the actual place of birth. Other states have similar laws here is Minnesota’s

“When an adoption occurs in a foreign country, the adoptive parents file their adoption papers from the country of birth with the district court in the county where the adoptive parents live. The district court completes a Certificate of Adoption form and mails the form to the Minnesota Office of Vital Records at MDH.”

“MDH uses the information provided on the Certificate of Adoption form to create a birth record showing the adopted birth information.”

http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/chs/osr/adoption.html#create

Adoption:

1) the only mention of Obama is a single line - “The parties have 1 child(ren) below age 18 and 1 child(ren)above age of 18 but still dependent on the parties for education.” All other financial discussions are only about the minor child.

2)Here is her statement in response to someone’s Facebook message - “You mentioned the adoption laws of Indonesia that you saw as related to my brother’s legitimacy (you were suggesting that because my father, his stepfather, had adopted him, that my brother was no longer American) and I said that I had no idea about Indonesian adoption law.”

Not a blanket denial or admittance.

3) In September/October 1967 the US Immigration Service reviewed Obama’s situation with regards to Lolo and came to the conclusion Soetoro met the criteria for a “step-father” under the Immigration Act of 1952. In all of the correspondence from that time period Obama is referred to as the child from a previous marriage never as the adopted child of Lolo . That is the case even as the Soetoros were pleading emotional and financial hardship from his being separated from SAD. they never plead hardship for his adopted son, even though that would have helped their case. If the adoption occurred after 1966, Obama could only be an Indonesian citizen by petition after the age of 18 or naturalization after the age of 21.

4) Who signed that document and when was it dated? Who provided the information? In my untrained opinion it was not signed by Lolo as he has a distinctive signature (double crossed the “t”). It also does not appear to be SAD’s.

BTW, did you know that President Ford went through high school and college using his step-father’s name even though there never was an adoption. Ford legally became Gerald Ford in his 20s.

5) Do a search on Facebook for the name “Soebarkah”. There are dozens of people with that name both male and female. It’s been explained to me that Soe (changed to Su after independence)refers to the original origin which is Java and barka in Javanese means “blessed” same as in Arabic.

From a 2008 website:

Soetoro is a typical Javanese name, pronounced [sutoro]. As we saw in the case of the fancifully named Batman bin Suparman, the Su- or Soe- prefix (from a Sanskritic root meaning ‘good, fortunate’) is very common in Javanese names. The oe spelling is a colonial vestige, as that digraph was used in the Dutch East Indies to represent /u/ when a standard Roman orthography was introduced to Javanese, Malay, and other local languages in the nineteenth century. After Indonesian independence, in 1950, spelling in the national language was modified to render /u/ as u, perhaps because oe was the orthographic element that looked most egregiously Dutch. (In 1972 there were additional spelling reforms to change tj, dj, and j to c, j, and y respectively.)

Lolo Soetoro was born in the late colonial era (c. 1936), so the Dutch oe spelling would have been in effect then. Interestingly, even after 1950, some Indonesians held on to the oe spelling in their names, perhaps out of a certain nostalgia for colonial days. First president Soekarno made the switch to Sukarno, but his successor Soeharto kept signing his name with oe (though many newspapers switched it to u anyway). And Sukarno’s daughter Megawati (president from 2001 to 2004) uses an oddly half-archaized spelling for her last name, Soekarnoputri, choosing the old orthography for her father’s name but rendering the -putri suffix (’daughter of’) with the modern u.

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=528

6) See response to 3. He is referred to as the child from a previous marriage.

Here are some of the references:

November 31, 1965 Sworn affidavit Stanley Ann Dunham Soetoro
“I am now living with my parents in the home which they rent here in Honolulu near the University. My son by a former marriage lives there with us.”

December, 1966 – Immigration Service memo on waiver application
“It was also determined that the applicant’s spouse is now employed and can adequately maintain both herself and her 5-year-child by a former marriage.

May 24, 1967 Immigration Service memo
“She also told me that she has submitted applications for visas to enter indonesia for herself and her 5-year-old child, by a previous marriage. She advises that she and her child will definitely go to Indonesia to join her husband …”

August 21, 1967 Immigration memo
“… and she will therefore be without adequate income to support herself and her minor son of a previous marriage who will accompany her there.”

August 21, 1967 Immigration Service memo
“There is nothing in the file to document the status of the spouse’s son. Please inquire into his citizenship and residence status and determine whether or not he is the applicant’s child within the meaning of Section 101(b)(1)(B) of the Act [McCarron-Walter Act of 1952], who maysuffer exceptional hardship within the meaning of Section 212(e)”

September 14, 1967
“Pursuant to inquiry from Central office regarding the status of the applicant’s spouses’ child by a former marriage.”

“The person in question is a united states citizen by virtue of his birth in Honolulu, hawaii Aug. 4, 1961. He is living with the applicant’s spouse in Honolulu, Hawaii. He is considered the applicants step-child, within the meaning of Sec. 101(b)(1)(B), of the act, by virtue of the marriage of the applicant to childs’ mother on March 15, 1965.”

October 6, 1967 (date stamped) Immigration Service memo
“The applicant’s United states citizen wife resides at 2234 University Avenue, Honolulu, Hawaii with her 6-year-old United States citizen son by a previous marriage. The applicant, who returned to Indonesia and has been residing there for over 14 months [prior paragraph states Lolo Soetoro left the U.S. on July 20, 1966 which dates this memo as approximately September/October, 1967] …His wife has remained with his stepchild in the United states and earns about $400 per month. She has made application for a visa for herself and her son to travel to Indonesia …she will therefore be without adequate income to support herself and her minor son of a previous marriage who will be required to accompany her.”

“Satisfactory evidence of Mr. Soetoro’s marriage on March 15, 1965, to a United States citizen and evidence of the legal termination of his spouse’s prior marriage have been submitted. There are no adverse factors in this case.”

Could not find any statement by Lolo Soetoro saying Obama is his child. A three page letter he wrote describing the hardship doesn’t mention Obama at all.


281 posted on 07/04/2015 7:20:51 PM PDT by 4Zoltan
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To: 4Zoltan
Hawaii Administrative Rules require the birth certificate for a foreign born to list the actual place of birth. Other states have similar laws here is Minnesota’s

Why this isn't relevant. For the last 7 years i've been reading articles regarding the usage of Hawaii as a gateway to American citizenship by foreigners all across the pacific rim. Hawaii has/had loose standards deliberately because there are a lot of foreigners with a lot of money who want a ticket into US Citizenship.

I've even read articles that claim this is done deliberate and complicit with the connivance of the officials who are responsible for keeping/issuing such records. I've even seen some official birth stats for Hawaii that are just shocking. This one for example.

The rest of your message I will get to another time.

282 posted on 07/05/2015 7:27:13 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp
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