The next month the letters column would be full of letters from Yankees crying about the vandalism, and the magazine would have to run a column on how this symbol became a part of the American Indian lore.
Posted on 06/23/2015 10:29:56 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Solving the marriage equation is easy --it resolves itself when you simply use the proper term:holy matrimony.
All indications suggest the U.S. Supreme Court is likely to miss this connection in its decision due any day now.
Marriage has always essentially been a function of “the church” (figuratively speaking).
It is not a function of the state—and in fact the state is specifically precluded from any activity whatsoever here—by the First Amendment:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”
Seen from this vantage point, the correct and inalienable vantage point, it is only our government’s insertion into matters where it has no legitimate delegated authority that has created any problems with which America now wrestles.
It is important here to understand the word government itself in a way that may not be familiar to you.
Government is not this “thing” that exists. Government is like soylent green: government is people. When you see the word government, in this case at least, read, “People working in Washington.”
This clears away much of the foggy bottom. Government is not doing things, or usurping power, or acting beyond its delegated powers. People working in Washington are doing things, or usurping power, or acting beyond their delegated powers. Government must be stopped, controlled, brought back in line. Wrong. People working in Washington must be stopped, controlled, brought back in line. But I digress.
If you can find a chapel that will marry you to a rock, many living things at once, whatever your heart desires without harming others, government (people working in Washington) has no legitimate sanctioned power in the matter, and it is forbidden for it (them) from getting involved. If you think some sort of government stamp is what makes marriage legitimate, government has succeeded in brainwashing you.
The many plain-English definitions of the word marriage, q.v., are not at issue (the marriage of plasterboard to studs to make a drywall, for example). The people in Washington have no legitimate authority over the word, everyone knows that.
Matters of inheritance, medical care, joint property, custody of children, real estate, royalties, social security, pensions—these are contractual matters between consenting parties and can be handled very nicely by courts, which is where they properly belong. Courts can be properly run by governments of course, from Washington or otherwise, and make competent decisions.
Taxing people unequally based on their living arrangements or offspring, which is where we find ourselves today, is a grotesque violation of the First Amendment ban and always has been, which leads us to the most difficult point.
Extricating ourselves from the entire government-usurped married-life problem is huge. People working in Washington have insinuated their way into our lives in such intricate and intractable ways that untangling the mess could take decades. We didn’t get here overnight, and we won’t get out overnight either. Luckily, we needn’t eat this entire elephant at once.
Regarding the more easily addressed who-can-commit-their-lives-in-whatever-way-they-choose issue, just find a chapel that can conduct a wedding ceremony as you like it, and wash the government right out of your hair. It has no business being there. Problem solved. In good theory of governance at least.
The Supreme Court’s impending decision (whether the several states are required to recognize gay marriage licenses of other states, or issue their own), is poised to totally overlook the fact that the First Amendment precludes it from being in the field at all. Marriage is a religious issue, not a secular one. People are bound to each other before their God. What about the godless? Then it’s just a contract, which is fine in a free state as long as no one is harmed, and government’s proper role is merely tangential. Contracts are enforceable.
We are thus reminded that this “high court” has repeatedly turned the Constitution upside down, just not hard enough yet to send the rabble into the streets with torches and pitchforks. A whole lot of pitchforks.
Government won’t take the holy-matrimony truth lying down of course, they’ll simply ignore it, like all other inconvenient truths. But it’s getting close to time to stand up to them. Holy matrimony and the ban on interfering with religion demand it.
Conservatives and liberals alike who demand that government coerce people to see religion their way miss the point altogether -- that is not a role assigned to government. Fight for that and we get what no one wants, which is at the heart of many of the nation’s ills, usurpation of power.
Call the DEERS office and ask them about it-I did, and was told it was required-twice. I’ve been asked for that marriage license on base to get an ID card for years-I also had to have it to get survivor’s benefits after MrT5 died-I think it is stupid, since Texas has a common law anyway, but many states don’t and with the military, one size is supposed to fit all.
Maybe most people want their marriage civilly legal for IRS, and all that, but I think that is going to change if the insanity continues-I didn’t give a rat’s ass except for the military and the kids-as far as I’m concerned, if it is done before God by a clergyman, that is all the legal I should need. Maybe other people will feel that way too if a license to “marry” can be bought by any group of humans or a troop of baboons...
You don’t understand, YOU wanted to make sure that your marriage was legal, the federal government didn’t care.
I was married in the Army, and the Army has recognized marriages since the federal government first started passing marriage related laws in 1780 and 1790 with the congress.
YOU wanted your marriage to be legal, just as I did, and almost everyone does.
What's missing?
I don't have a problem with the federal government staying the h3ll out of the church's business. I would have a problem with any church that married up anything other than hetero couples.
The next month the letters column would be full of letters from Yankees crying about the vandalism, and the magazine would have to run a column on how this symbol became a part of the American Indian lore.
I’m not disagreeing with you at all-of course personal beliefs and likings aside, if you want benefits for spouse and kids, you have to grit teeth and have the paper-that is what’s wrong with the picture, in my opinion, because the greedy government just can’t resist f’ing with anything, even if it means being inclusive to that aforementioned troop of baboons-and if there is a buck or two to be made...
It is that cynicism and lack of respect for the beliefs of individuals-especially religious beliefs-that convinced me-when I was about 14-that government needs to be removed from anything that involves religion or the like.
OMG! WRONG POST! Moderator remove and I will repost in the correct thread.
See-—that is where the courts destroyed Reason and Logic. And the fact that the courts are promoting Vice in a “Justice” (virtue) System makes it “null and void”. As Montesquieu stated, only Virtue can be promoted in a Just Law.
Natural Law is the basis of Christianity -—only because of the Catholic Church and Thomism.
That understanding that Faith and Reason is ALWAYS present in ANY idea (other than math and physics) was the Founding Principles in American Jurisprudence and basis of Thomism-—and why Natural Law Theory (Lockean Philosophy) became essential in our legal system. The ideas (faith) created the Age of Reason and the Mind of Newton and the Founders of US and US Law.
Without Natural Law Theory, there can be no Reason and Logic. Just Law has to be Reasoned always. Irrational concepts like “homosexual marriage” can never be promoted in a “Just” Law. Since Christianity is the ONLY reasoned religion (it used to be when Natural Laws weren’t jettisoned)-—then it is the ONLY religion besides Deism which was aligned to our US “Justice” System.
All “unjust laws” are “null and void”-—as Justice Marshall stated.
Understanding that Faith is essential-—and no human can eject “faith” from their ideology EVER-——since we are not God-—was the basis of our legal system until the Postmodernists like Justice Holmes threw out Reason and Natural Laws.
They “thought” “faith” could be separated——not just “religion”-—and even the words God and Jesus Christ which could NOT establish a Church were censored from the public square unconstitutionally for the first time in the 60s.
This Marxist idea-—that telling the Truth/God—can not happen in the public square is the beginning of the destruction of Rule of Law (Higher Laws/God’s Laws) which actually were the Christian Ethics which evolved in Western Civ from Common Law and Blackstone’s idea of Justice (God’s Laws).
Since Natural Law Theory is basically God’s Design of the Universe-—there is no incompatibility with Christian Ethics and the USA-—and is why some religions, like Mormonism could be outlawed-—because they treated women like cattle and unequal with polygamy-—which is unnatural-—against Natural Laws since it denigrates women to breeding cattle.
That Natural Duty to raise one’s biological offspring-—is a PRIMARY Natural Duty, which is embedded in Natural Law and our Justice System . To destroy that system, which is supposed to facilitate Virtue only-—(Montesquieu) that fulfillment of Natural Duty and Justice (virtue)....is essential to our legal system. It has nothing to de with “religion” but everything to do with the Laws of Nature (and our Declaration added “nature’s God” for a REASON.
Using Natural Law is NOT religious-—and it is essential because it is embedded into our “Justice” (virtue) System——which includes FAITH always. Can’t eliminate faith from anything. Christianity usually condemns “Blind Faith” like in Marxist and Muslim religions-—irrational beliefs not based on Natural Laws (God’s Works).
Natural Law Theory created the Age of Reason and the US Constitution-—and the destruction of Natural Law is a Marxism, Postmodernist push so that irrational paganism, will again rule-—so children have no ability to “think” and can be made into “happy slaves” for the Collective.
Individualism and Natural Rights from God is a Christian concept only and the Marxists want God eliminated so the State is god and irrationality-—like males are females-—to be “normal” and “natural” for the NWO.
Can’t have rational, moral, masculine males in a culture of slavery or tribal Inca-like minds, where Up is Down, boy harems are “good”, and Vice is Virtue.
Without Virtue, there can be no Freedom (Socrates.) Aristotle stated that Virtue is taught and habituated in childhood-—it is why the Marxists put in the “Prussian indoctrination system” in USA to destroy Virtue in children intentionally and hyper-sexualize them to destroy normal sexual identity formation by removing their parents and putting them in artificial environments....for “group think” only, and “operant conditioning” as Fichte and Wundt desired for their “happy slaves” who actually believe “snow is black” and boys are girls. Total removal of Natural Law and Real Life experiences in the Natural Family for conditioning into slavery-—(no Reason/Logic or understanding of Natural Law). Total dehumanization (removal of the Mind/Individualism) —removal of unique identity and the ability to “think outside the box” like all our Founding Fathers, etc..
We need the “education” system in US destroyed and parents as the primary educators of their children again. Local control of all schools and curricula.
Many can’t even use critical thinking skills any more because of the “operant conditioning” done for 12 years or more and the power of the elites to control the “proper” emotions through TV/Movies to flip Good and Evil to the irrational pagan, Marxist collectives.
While they condition-—they destroy the ability to learn all the great Traditions and the Great Thinking of all of Western Civilization-—which created the Age of Reason and the USA......so it can all be changed to the irrational utopia of Marx where there is no mother and father or biological connections——the State is god.....no Natural Laws-—just Rule of Man.
What religion? Islam, gay churches, Hindus, Mormons, what about atheists, or non-church/Mosque/temple joining people?
Should Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln have never bought a marriage license? Should George Washington not have sought so firmly to make sure that his marriage was legal by government definition?
A lot of atheists worship at the altar of climate change anyway, so maybe that could be their “religion”. And the Amish still use social ostracism to good effect-they call it “shunning” of course. As long as government doesn’t interfere with all their PC stuff, that shunning/ostracism does seem to work-but I digress...
Government is not worthy of trust in those matters now, if they ever were. I think most mosques are worthy of shunning and watching carefully lest they commit real crimes, but that is just my opinion.
Why not let each state decide the thing-I think it may all come out well-after awhile. I still believe that my marriage certificate signed by a clergyman-not purchased at the courthouse-should be just as legal as the courthouse one-everyone is entitled to their opinion, and while I respect that fact, I don’t care for my marriage before God to be in the same company with a state license that soon may be purchased by any combination of sentient beings and called a “marriage”-that is my opinion.
No one forced you to get a marriage license, many don’t.
Quit whining about something that you insisted on doing.
The point that I’m trying to get at, is that we have marriage, and will always have marriage in America, and defining it will be won or lost in the law.
All this other escapism and fantasies, and wishing, won’t save marriage in America.
Just as we don’t have much interest in some Mormons off in Utah doing their own thing with their religious polygamy marriages, or people shacking up, well no one is going to care if you don’t get a marriage license.
What really matters is saving America, and that means finding a way to save marriage in politics and the law, not by dropping out.
I certainly bitch, but I never whine, sir-and I’m more than willing to do something with what I bitch about any way I’m able to help-I’ve never been a shirker, either.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Texas go solo-again-but I’m probably in the minority here on that one-it would solve a lot more than the marriage quandary by yanking the carpet from under some liberal feet.
The state argument is a fig leaf, there is no way that American families won’t be able to move freely around the nation and have their marriages and families recognized.
Texas wants all those corporate headquarters, and factories and refinery plants and shipping conglomerates and the military bases and on and on.
What do you think would happen if all of those national companies, factories, manufacturing plants,
Walmarts and Costcos and Safeways, Dennys McDonalds, Hi Tech firms in Austin, oil companies, the federal employees, and shipping and trucking companies and military bases were told that in Texas, their employees marriages and relationship with their children, won’t be recognized as such, that in Texas they will all be single people?
How long do you really think that kind of thing would last?
We have to fight this head on, as a national fight for marriage.
The many plain-English definitions of the word marriage, q.v., are not at issue (the marriage of plasterboard to studs to make a drywall, for example). The people in Washington have no legitimate authority over the word, everyone knows that.
That's exactly what the corrupt courts are being used for... to demand obiesance to beast.gov's false definitions of reality. Mark of the beast = embracing lies as truth as a willful, fundamental direction/orentation/character trait. Reprobates won't wake up and repent, they'll double-down in order to destroy opposition to their false worldview.
If highest* court in the land validates a blatant lie, when biological reality and objectibly verifiable facts witness against sodomite "marriage" and transgender frankenfruits, then the people must accept the new truth or else expect severe persecution. Those who cling to actual Truth are the enemies to be silenced, by any means necessary.
(*Of course, the Heavenly Court's decisions are supreme, not those of the foul USSC.)
Beast.gov has now reached the point of utmost arrogance and power, that it now demands worship as the final authority on truth, reason, and reality. IOW, it has placed itself as god.
It's been at work for a long time. I remember the days before government "wisdom" had infiltrated every aspect of life. For how long have people been swallowing its health advice, for example? Food pyramids, my plates, nutrition labels, FDA-approved this or that. Result: disease, death, and (shock!) demand for free healthcare. It's not the healthy (whole, sound) who need a doctor, but the sick. How convenient.
Biblical parallels such as the events of Daniel chapter 6 ought to be obvious by now. Daniel was trustworthy and faithful with an excellent spirit. Therefore, government goons in positions of authority schemed to make him into a lawbreaker deserving of death.
This assault on the sanctity of marriage is a parallel to the abomination of desolation. The Holy Temple was where the Law was kept and preserved. The pig on the altar is this abominable sodomite marriage idol. Holy matrimony is being mocked, debased, and violated to the very core of its meaning and existence.
The NT warns of an abomination of desolation spoken of by the *prophet* Daniel. Daniel wasn't a prophet to the Jewish people. He was, however, a prophet to the Gentile (Babylonian) kings (chapters 2,4,5).
Belshazzar commanded that the holy temple vessels be brought in to be used for his profane celebration. Daniel explained the meaning of the writing on the wall in the verses (18-23) *before* he got to the specifics of the literal writing on the wall.
("...though you knew all this.")
From an earlier post two days ago:
Daniel 5:27 TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
Was the writing on the wall written like an acronym poster?
M ene
M ene
T ekel
U pharsin
That it to say, mem (spelled mem mem) tav (spelled tav vav).
[met]
dead (person), deceased
1. dead. 2. corpse. 3. to die, perish
(whoso readeth, let him understand)
Daniel was a prophet... to the Babylonian kings.
Alternatively, mem mem tav vav (ממתו) spells out "died".
If the USSC rules poorly and on Friday, that date is the 9th of Tammuz, and the eve of Shabbat. The Torah reading is Chukat (statute). There's more (re the parah adumah, which is a type of bakar/cattle) but the same word/construct used in the Hebrew for the US Constitution (Chukat Arzot Habrit). See the Hebrew wikipedia page title linked at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution
"The United States Constitution is the supreme law of the United States of America.[1] The Constitution, originally comprising seven articles, delineates the national frame of government."
From the page on the red heifer:
"The red heifer (Hebrew: פרה אדומה; parah adumah), also known as the red cow, was a cow brought to the priests as a sacrifice according to the Hebrew Bible, and its ashes were used for the ritual purification of a Tumat HaMet ("the impurity of death"), that is, an Israelite who had come into contact with a corpse.[1]
FWIW to consider and contemplate. No wonder a lot of people have the unsettling feeling that Something is Coming.
If Texas had lower taxes than the US, we’d probably attract like Bangladesh, India and other places offshore do now-and a lot of the military is here contributing to the economy already. If someone didn’t like marriage being a man and a woman-leave-I’d like for those people to leave here as it is now-I don’t have much, but I would donate a few bucks next payday to a fund to send a homosexual couple or two to a state like Vermont, where they are welcome, rather than have them here-let me assure you that they don’t make good neighbors, even way out here-they are just over the top rude and ill mannered...
I just don’t see a national solution to the issue of what sensible people know as “real” marriage the way this country is now...
I get it, you just want to vent, you aren’t serious about the issue.
Ansel, when there is a plan, I’ll be happy to lend a hand-or both hands-I don’t see any coherent plan at this time-people are all over the place-as you pointed out-and that isn’t going to get a damned thing done-we are all bitching/venting, and that is about all there is right now-while sometimes real ideas can come of that-what is needed is a substantial, organized hell-no pushback, for starters-show me an elected official right here in Texas who will actually lead that pushback-that is what is needed...
Cruz is the only one fighting it at all levels, federal and state.
I do think that the last thing we need is to give up and create self pleasing fantasies as escapism.
We need a president and legislators who will fight to stop gay marriage at the federal level, and will support states in the fight at their level, and we need conservatives voting appropriately at all levels of government, city, county, state, and federal.
Always beware of the libertarians, and rinos, at ALL levels of voting and government.
The second you use religion the judges mind turns off. period.
The fact is marriage is an institution which society rewards because it furthers the continuation of society.
No children no society.
Even a childless couple supports the institution because an adopted child need never know they are adopted.
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