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To: rockrr; StoneWall Brigade; DoodleDawg
Who or what is this 4cj?

4cj was a former Georgia legislator who initially posted as 4ConservativeJustices, then later shortened his handle to 4cj. He was a thorough, knowledgeable researcher. Years ago he stopped posting. I have wondered whether he was very ill or had passed away. I'm sorry he is no longer posting here.

Here is a link to one of his posts that addressed Lincoln's racism: Link

Years ago I made a post pointing out that Lincoln used the n-word in one of his speeches and that one of the current-day Lincoln societies had changed the word to Negro in their version of his speech. In my opinion, that's worse than "judging men from the 19th century by 21st century standards of racism."

218 posted on 06/23/2015 9:29:57 AM PDT by rustbucket
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To: rustbucket
Years ago I made a post pointing out that Lincoln used the n-word in one of his speeches and that one of the current-day Lincoln societies had changed the word to Negro in their version of his speech. In my opinion, that's worse than "judging men from the 19th century by 21st century standards of racism."

Thanks for sharing your opinion with us. But I still maintain that if you judge any Southerner of that period by the same standards of racism that you judge Lincoln by then they'll appear just as bad as he in that department, if not worse.

220 posted on 06/23/2015 9:46:44 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: rustbucket; StoneWall Brigade; DoodleDawg
Thanks Rusty for clarifying that. That said, I am unpersuaded that Lincoln's attitudes toward negroes weren't mainstream for the era. I suppose that I could provide quotations from various and sundry individuals of the era to pose a contrast/comparison but that probably would be persuasive either. What did blacks of the era think of Lincoln's "racism"? I'll leave you with this...

I shall never forget my first interview with this great man. I was accompanied to the executive mansion and introduced to President Lincoln by Senator [Samuel] Pomeroy. The room in which he received visitors was the one now used by the President's secretaries. I entered it with a moderate estimate of my own consequence, and yet there was to talk with, and even to advise, the head man of a great nation. Happily for me, there was no vain pomp and ceremony about him. I was never more quickly or more completely put at ease in the presence of a great man, than in that of Abraham Lincoln. He was seated, when I entered, in a low arm chair, with his feet extended to the floor, surrounded by a large number of documents, and several busy secretaries. The room bore the marks of business, and the persons in it, the president included, appeared to be much overworked and tired. Long lines of care were already deeply written on Mr. Lincoln's brow, and his strong face, full of earnestness, lighted up as soon as my name was mentioned. As I approached and was introduced to him, he rose and extended his hand, and bade me welcome. I at once felt myself in the present of an honest man — on whom I could love, honor and trust without reserve or doubt. Proceeding to tell him who I was, and what I was doing, he promptly, but kindly, stopped me, saying, 'I know who you are, Mr. Douglass; Mr. Seward has told me all about you. Sit down. I am glad to see you.' I then told him the object of my visit; that I was assisting to raise colored troops; that several months before I had been very successful in getting men to enlist, but now it was not easy to induce the colored me to enter the service, because there was a feeling among them that the government did not deal fairly with them in several respects. Mr. Lincoln asked me to state particulars. I replied that there were three particulars which I wished to bring to his attention. First that colored soldiers ought to receive the same wages as those paid to white soldiers. Second, that colored soldiers ought to receive the same protection when taken prisoners, and be exchanged as readily, and on the same terms, as any other prisoners, and if Jefferson Davis should shoot or hang colored soldiers in cold blood, the United States government should retaliate in kind and degree without dely upon Confederate prisoners in its hands. Third, when colored soldiers, seeking the 'bauble-reputation at the cannon's mouth,' performed great and uncommon service on the battlefield, they should be rewarded by distinction and promotion, precisely as white soldiers are rewarded for like services.

223 posted on 06/23/2015 10:04:46 AM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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