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To: rustbucket; StoneWall Brigade; DoodleDawg
Thanks Rusty for clarifying that. That said, I am unpersuaded that Lincoln's attitudes toward negroes weren't mainstream for the era. I suppose that I could provide quotations from various and sundry individuals of the era to pose a contrast/comparison but that probably would be persuasive either. What did blacks of the era think of Lincoln's "racism"? I'll leave you with this...

I shall never forget my first interview with this great man. I was accompanied to the executive mansion and introduced to President Lincoln by Senator [Samuel] Pomeroy. The room in which he received visitors was the one now used by the President's secretaries. I entered it with a moderate estimate of my own consequence, and yet there was to talk with, and even to advise, the head man of a great nation. Happily for me, there was no vain pomp and ceremony about him. I was never more quickly or more completely put at ease in the presence of a great man, than in that of Abraham Lincoln. He was seated, when I entered, in a low arm chair, with his feet extended to the floor, surrounded by a large number of documents, and several busy secretaries. The room bore the marks of business, and the persons in it, the president included, appeared to be much overworked and tired. Long lines of care were already deeply written on Mr. Lincoln's brow, and his strong face, full of earnestness, lighted up as soon as my name was mentioned. As I approached and was introduced to him, he rose and extended his hand, and bade me welcome. I at once felt myself in the present of an honest man — on whom I could love, honor and trust without reserve or doubt. Proceeding to tell him who I was, and what I was doing, he promptly, but kindly, stopped me, saying, 'I know who you are, Mr. Douglass; Mr. Seward has told me all about you. Sit down. I am glad to see you.' I then told him the object of my visit; that I was assisting to raise colored troops; that several months before I had been very successful in getting men to enlist, but now it was not easy to induce the colored me to enter the service, because there was a feeling among them that the government did not deal fairly with them in several respects. Mr. Lincoln asked me to state particulars. I replied that there were three particulars which I wished to bring to his attention. First that colored soldiers ought to receive the same wages as those paid to white soldiers. Second, that colored soldiers ought to receive the same protection when taken prisoners, and be exchanged as readily, and on the same terms, as any other prisoners, and if Jefferson Davis should shoot or hang colored soldiers in cold blood, the United States government should retaliate in kind and degree without dely upon Confederate prisoners in its hands. Third, when colored soldiers, seeking the 'bauble-reputation at the cannon's mouth,' performed great and uncommon service on the battlefield, they should be rewarded by distinction and promotion, precisely as white soldiers are rewarded for like services.

223 posted on 06/23/2015 10:04:46 AM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: rockrr; wardaddy; stainlessbanner

Grand Old Partisan did that little trick too Rockrr it’s not gonna work.


239 posted on 06/23/2015 2:41:31 PM PDT by StoneWall Brigade
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To: rockrr
Lincoln was clearly against slavery. That was a plus on his ledger, IMO. He was, of course, a politician and pragmatist, and some of his views on race did reflect those of his constituents and the times. For example, the following statement may reflect Lincoln's beliefs as well as those of the American people (from the black historian Carter G. Woodson 1922 cited in "Lincoln and Civil Rights for Blacks" by Mary Frances Berry [Source]):

... the large majority of Americans of Lincoln's day believed that the two races could not dwell together on the basis of social and political equality.

Lincoln had been an advocate of colonization of blacks in Liberia since the 1840s [Link]. He had also been one of the managers of the Illinois State Colonization Society in the 1850s [Link]. Colonization of blacks out of the country seems to have been a long held belief with him.

Some historians and some on these threads have argued that by 1863 Lincoln gave up his intent to move large numbers of blacks out of the country given that he apparently did not believe they and whites could live successfully together. But, in fact, Lincoln kept investigating possibilities for colonization of blacks elsewhere.

Lincoln sent General Dan Sickles to Colombia in 1865 to discuss black colonization there. Here, from the Dayton Daily Empire Newspaper of June 2, 1865 is the following mention of Sickles, Lincoln and the mission to Colombia [Source].

The Negroes of the U.S. To Be Sent To Bogota

It is understood that the mission of General Sickles to Bogota was for the purpose of obtaining grants of lands for the purpose of settling them with blacks from the United States, and that the late President who authorized the mission, was willing to give fifteen millions of dollars for adequate territory.

That is consistent with the finding that Lincoln kept pushing the colonization idea well after the emancipation proclamation [Link].

Frederick Douglass, the author of the quote in your previous post, disagreed strongly with Lincoln over colonization. Here is Douglass on colonization in 1849: [Link].

Some say that in 1865 Douglass had convinced Lincoln not to push colonization. Maybe, maybe not. In addition to the 1865 mission of General Sickles above, Lincoln was still discussing colonization with Benjamin Butler in April 1865 [Link].

I have brought up before on these threads that when Lincoln was a Congressman in the 1840s, he included in his bill to free Washington DC's slaves a section that was basically a fugitive slave law designed to let slave owners recover slaves that escaped into DC. That doesn't fit the popular view of Lincoln, but it did reflect the realities of the time as far as political compromise went. However, his bill did not get much support, and it died.

Very shortly after he became president, a Fugitive Slave Commissioner friend of his in Springfield, Illinois provided a Missouri slave holder with the authority to collect his escaped slaves in Chicago, which was then a long-time refuge for fugitive slaves. I have always felt that Lincoln might have prodded his friend to do that since it would indicate to the South that Lincoln would enforce the Fugitive Slave Law even in northern sanctuary cities. As a consequence of the Missouri man recovering his slaves in Chicago, many hundreds of fugitive slaves immediately left Chicago for Canada in early April 1861. They had gotten the message.

273 posted on 06/24/2015 1:21:48 PM PDT by rustbucket
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