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Drudge headline: Ryan snaps: you'll read Obamatrade after we pass it!
Drudge ^ | 11 Jun 15

Posted on 06/11/2015 5:23:08 AM PDT by xzins

click here to read article


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To: Leaning Right
In all seriousness, their argument is that if the details were released now, special interest groups could pressure the negotiators to make changes that otherwise wouldn't be made.

Isn't that the idea of our republic?.. to be informed so that we may express our wishes to our representatives?

If they're saying they don't want us to be informed because then they may have to choose to do what we want then just damn.

121 posted on 06/11/2015 7:20:36 AM PDT by Principled (Government Slowdown using the budget process!)
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To: 1010RD

This is probably still taught in law schools. At this point, elements of a good law is the same as teaching the kids how to catch skittle-pooping unicorns.


122 posted on 06/11/2015 7:21:51 AM PDT by Yaelle ("You're gonna fly away, Glad you're going my way... I love it when we're Cruzin together")
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To: 1010RD

It’s why I don’t believe in “blind” justice...time for good folks to start tipping the scales back!


123 posted on 06/11/2015 7:22:09 AM PDT by mdmathis6 (If Hitler, Nazi, OR...McCarthy are mentioned in an argument, then the argument is over!)
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To: semimojo

When the Senate passed the trade bill, I noticed this on a number of news sites:

“The legislation would give Congress the ability to vote for or against — but not amend or filibuster — major international trade agreements negotiated by the White House. It’s known as “fast track” authority because it is designed to speed up and boost the likelihood of the U.S. approving free trade agreements. The pending 12-nation Trans-Pacific Partnership isn’t expected to be sealed until and if Congress clears the fast-track bill.”

Note the “designed to speed up and boost the likelihood of the U.S. approving free trade agreements.” This TPA is a smoke and mirrors device used to get around the two-thirds vote requirement to pass a treaty, which is what the trade bills are. I talked with a senator’s aide and he slipped and called the bill a treaty. Do you honestly believe the Senate would joyfully approve TPA if they did not have in mind passing the whole deal? To grant their prince Obama fast track authority and then deny his use of it? When have Republicans denied Obama anything he wanted since they took control of Congress?


124 posted on 06/11/2015 7:23:11 AM PDT by odawg
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To: Principled
That is a false choice. How about another possibility... they clear up the secrecy issues to calm us down?

How can they clear up the secrecy issues without revealing their negotiating stance, and that of all 12 members, to the world before the deal is done?

Your representative and both of your senators can go read the current draft today if they want to. We'll also all get to see the full text for at least 60 days before congress votes.

125 posted on 06/11/2015 7:23:19 AM PDT by semimojo
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To: xzins

No, they are not a joke. Jokes are funny and make you laugh. They are Tyrants and needed to be treated as such.

Is it time for civil disobedience yet? Is it time to water the tree of liberty with the blood of such tyrants now?


126 posted on 06/11/2015 7:24:18 AM PDT by Sequoyah101
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To: xzins

Burgess should have responded with “Just to clarify, Congressman, you’re saying that we have to pass the bill in order to find out what’s in it. Correct?”

Would love to see how Ryan would’ve responded to THAT!


127 posted on 06/11/2015 7:24:56 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: basil

No, they are not stupid. They are evil and have out smarted us all. They are in power and we are their servants. We are the tax donkeys and their pawns who vote for them because they have created a power structure with our money that blocks all other opponents with propaganda.

The statesmen have been sold to the highest bidders. They have tasted absolute power and hit had corrupted them absolutely.


128 posted on 06/11/2015 7:26:14 AM PDT by Sequoyah101
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To: semimojo
Ridiculous Drudge headline. Ryan is saying that the text will be released when the negotiations with the other 11 countries are concluded. Congress, and the public, will then have at least 60 days to review and debate before the vote.

What is the consequence if they do not make it public for 60 days? Answer: none

Remember when the Democrats, then the Republicans promised to post all bills on the internet for 5 days before debating/voting?

This is as worthless a promise as that.....and you are falling for it, just as they hope.

129 posted on 06/11/2015 7:27:11 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (President Walker - Attorney General Cruz (enforcing immigration laws for real))
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To: mdmathis6

Republics have blind justice. Tyrannies don’t.

The American Form of Government:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT6koTFHnH0

It’s what conservatives used to believe years ago.


130 posted on 06/11/2015 7:29:42 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: GodBlessUSA

Obama is half the problem. The other half is the Republicans empowering him. Had the GOP and their backers not given barry the means, he’d never have been able to do what he has done.


131 posted on 06/11/2015 7:29:52 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: Lakeshark
I don’t understand why some here are supporting this TPP stuff, do you have any ideas?

I support free trade. I do not support secret trade deals with congress giving up its authority to amend such deals and eliminating the need for a super majority.

I do not agree with Fast Track Authority. Passing inter-nation deals should be difficult and should require a very high bar of approval.

Fast Track is just a lazy person's way of saying "the constitutional way of doing things is too hard.:

132 posted on 06/11/2015 7:30:24 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (President Walker - Attorney General Cruz (enforcing immigration laws for real))
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To: semimojo
There isn't any way you could successfully conduct a high-stakes negotiation among 12 parties in public, so saying that's the only way that's acceptable is the same as saying you don't want any trade agrements.

First, nobody is saying anyone wants to conduct negotiations in public. That's a strawman. What people are saying is that we do not want to have something undesirable happen due to secrecy. Indeed, some specific examples have been provided - things relating to amnesty/immigration and "living documents" that can change without approval for example.

Those two things at a minimum need to be cleared up. Separately, they need to clear up the secrecy thing. Why does something have to be classified? Why are there gag orders on the people who view the classified agreement?

This needs to be cleared up is all.

133 posted on 06/11/2015 7:30:43 AM PDT by Principled (Government Slowdown using the budget process!)
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To: odawg
Note the “designed to speed up and boost the likelihood of the U.S. approving free trade agreements.” This TPA is a smoke and mirrors device used to get around the two-thirds vote requirement to pass a treaty, which is what the trade bills are. I talked with a senator’s aide and he slipped and called the bill a treaty. Do you honestly believe the Senate would joyfully approve TPA if they did not have in mind passing the whole deal? To grant their prince Obama fast track authority and then deny his use of it? When have Republicans denied Obama anything he wanted since they took control of Congress?

No argument that fast-track makes it much easier to pass trade deals. I think the conventional wisdom is that it would be impossible to pass a trade deal without it. Personally, I think some trade deals are good and necessary, although I haven't seen the TPP yet.

My point is that there's nothing unique about how TPP is being handled. Every modern trade deal has been done using this process. If you're against all trade deals, fine, but don't think the TPP's getting any special treatment.

134 posted on 06/11/2015 7:31:08 AM PDT by semimojo
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To: semimojo
He's lobbying for a vote on TPA, which only defines the process for approving the TPP (simple majority, no amendments, etc.).

No amendments?! Why not?

135 posted on 06/11/2015 7:31:51 AM PDT by Principled (Government Slowdown using the budget process!)
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To: xzins
There are legal penalties if the secrecy is violated.

But there are no penalties if they do not make the negotiated trade deal public for 60 days before voting on it.

136 posted on 06/11/2015 7:33:48 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (President Walker - Attorney General Cruz (enforcing immigration laws for real))
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To: semimojo

They clear up the secrecy by making the bill public after it’s been put on Fast Track.

This is a three stage process. The bill is put on Fast Track. Then the bill is released publicly for review and debate. THEN, down the road (45 days?) the bill is voted on, simple majority and no filibuster.

I like TPA Fast Track, with one exception. Thats the simple majority vote. If they put the vote requirement back where it should be, at 67 votes, the rest of it actually helps getting to a good bill/treaty by streamlining the process and keeping the thing from being turned into an omnibus/Christmas Tree.


137 posted on 06/11/2015 7:35:33 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: Principled
Why are there gag orders on the people who view the classified agreement?

This needs to be cleared up is all.

The gag orders exist so the interim positions of the US and the other 11 countries don't get leaked while the negotiations are in progress - conducting the negotiations in public, in other words.

Regarding undesirable aspects of the deal, I completely agree that we need to be on guard. That's the purpose of the 60 day period between publication of the text of the agreement and the vote by congress.

138 posted on 06/11/2015 7:37:22 AM PDT by semimojo
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To: semimojo

But is TPP a typical trade deal?

Doesn’t look like it to me. At least from what Congressmen and Senators who’ve seen it are saying (under the gag order).

That should requre a change to the “usual” TPA rules and process.


139 posted on 06/11/2015 7:39:53 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: semimojo
Sorry semimojo I don't believe them. It is likely a result of all the lies coming out of DC but really nobody believes them. Even those who are willing to cede further powers to the executive don't believe them - they're just willing to make a trade they see as good for them.

Having to negotiate in public is not equivalent to sharing with us the few details about which we are concerned. If us knowing the details screws the deal then so be it. But if not many of us object then no problem, right? What are they afraid of?

140 posted on 06/11/2015 7:42:18 AM PDT by Principled (Government Slowdown using the budget process!)
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