Posted on 06/08/2015 11:48:14 AM PDT by C19fan
As a young, openly gay Christian activist, Matthew Vines considered it a victory just to get into a room at a conservative Christian university here with four influential evangelicals who disagreed with him over what the Bible says about homosexuality.
He ended up in a polite, heartfelt three-hour debate last month over Scripture passages about topics like celibacy, eunuchs, slavery — and the connections between sex and marriage.
“Every single system you have within your body — whether it’s your respiratory system, your excretory system, your muscular system — can be completed as an individual,” said Sean McDowell, a professor here at Biola University and a well-known Christian author and speaker. “But there’s only one system in which male and female have half and become a united whole, and that’s in reproduction.”
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
God burned two cities to death because of homosexuality. I take it as a measure of his opinion on the subject.
The Combined tribes of Israel destroyed an entire city, killing every man women and child and everything that drew a breath, because of homosexuality.
Again, I take it as a measure of how strongly the bible condemns that behavior.
One would conclude that among rational people, there is no further room left for debate.
I don't see it. Show me the passage where entire cities were burned to death for adultery, fornication, lying, thieving or murdering?
To my knowledge of the bible, three entire cities were utterly destroyed for homosexuality. I know of no comparable condemnation for any other behavior.
A homosexual was executed in a barbaric and grisly way in the middle east by muslims while you were reading this thread.
“The Bible says the same thing about homos as it does about adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves, murderers, etc, etc, etc.
WE ARE SINNERS!”
Of course we are all sinners. Not one of us is going to heaven because our heterosexuality and marital fidelity makes us superior to others. Our only hope is to repent of our sins and ask God to forgive us through the sacrifice of his son.
That’s a lot different than using the legal system and IRS to force churches to sanctify these sins through the sacred ritual of Christian marriage.
Very astute observation, and I believe you are right. I tend not to play by their rules though.
I say things like "God burned two cities to death because of Homosexuality."
Not much nuance or nicety in that observation. :)
You do know you are putting forth an extreme case of the strawman fallacy?
The quote from which you are arguing for death is regarding deliberate incestual intercourse. Inappropriate touching is a long way from it, especially when the sisters were not willing participants.
The quote also does not specify death as the punishment, that is another overreach you have put forth to increase the shock value of your emotional argument.
Bad form old chap.
[Some Evangelicals Take New Look at Bible’s Stance on Gays]
GOD is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
GOD’s Word remains forever.
GOD is yes and no, never maybe.
Evangelicals should take a new look at the Bible’s stance on gays and line up with the WORD. If it’s in the Book, that’s the way it will be.
My point is that if you dig, and situate yourself right, you can find moral backing for things that might really not be all that applicable in modern times.
It certainly is. For anyone interested: Gay Christianity Refuted
Or if you want to download it, just right-click the link above and save it. I plan to listen to it again and recommend others to do the same.
Agreed. It is evil that keeps trying to make us accept sin. I have told numerous people that I don’t relish in the sins of my youth, that’s why I (and God)don’t endorse it! I love people and wan tthe best for them. Therefore I do not accept sin as being OK.
I'm going to have to chew on that for a bit. My thinking is that though technology changes, Human nature doesn't. It is inherent, persistent and predictable.
When I think of the word “sin” I think of “because of the consequences”.
Having sex before marriage has the consequences of spreading disease and having children out of wedlock -> therefore a sin.
Committing adultery destroys families and can, again, spread disease and result in children out of wedlock -> therefore a sin.
If we all never had sex prior to marriage, then get married and never commit adultery we would eliminate STD’s. It’s a crazy concept that few seem to consider but it is true none the less.
So let me ask this; what is the average number of partners gay men have? Is there such a thing as a virgin homosexual that then marries (in states that allow it)? ...those are rhetorical...the average is way more than hetero’s and I doubt any of those that have married have only ever had sex with the person they “married” (I mean, it’s probably not possible). When less than 1% of the population is having promiscuous anal sex with the same people, there can only one result - the spread of disease at an exponential rate. A rate that you would never approach in the heterosexual population. It is just math and the mechanics of what they’re doing....shown by the stats from CDC.
Sorry, the entire gay agenda has nothing to do with being inline with God’s word. It is the classic failure of people to want Christianity to be what they think it *should* be, not what it is. They’re contorting themselves to justify their behavior and calling it “love”. This is just a mockery of Judeo-Christian ethics. Traditional marriage has been a survival institution, not necessarily because two people have romantic feelings for each other but because the society MUST have children and not spread disease. It is our technology and science that has diluted the consequences but they’re still severe. Same sex attraction is not love and just because I can love my fellow man doesn’t mean I have a basis of marriage if I stick my you-know-what in you-know-where.
Is there even a hetero equivalent to Grindr? I mean, doesn’t that speak volumes?
bkmk
When God says ‘no’ to something and someone says ‘yes’ to that same thing, they are in opposition to God. It is rebellion against God and sin.
Romans 1:32 Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
Homosexual sex is also sin. Are those committing adultery inheriting the Kingdom of God? Someone who has been born again having received Jesus Christ will still sin but they are repentant and turn from their sin. An unrepentant person who justifies their sin has not received Jesus Christ, has not submitted to Jesus’ Lordship, they are not born again in Jesus Christ. Is it loving to tell an adulterer that they can remain in adultery and God will still let them enter into his Kingdom? No, it is unloving, it dishonors God and is evil to help persuade someone they are can remain in their sin unrepentant and God is ok with that.
1 Cor 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteousb will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Can a homosexual be saved? Yes of course, so can a adulterer. Does a saved person still sin? Yes and anyone who says they don’t sin is a liar and makes God a liar. They are deceived and the truth is not in them.
I am glad the conversation is going on, it is necessary. May it result in people turning from their sin and to Jesus Christ.
I have a few gay friends both male and female who love the Lord, who are virgins but I still am concerned for them as they twist the Word of God to make homosexuality acceptable to God.
There are homosexuals and lesbians who think they are saved and should be concerned about what God tells us about homosexuality and lesbianism. But there are bigger groups that also should be concerned. Jesus spoke against being remarried 5 times, and that is common place in churches. Then there are those who only want power and call Jesus Lord but Jesus tells them he never knew them and to depart from him. Matt 7:21-23.
And what is probably the largest group of people who call Jesus Lord, but Jesus calls them goats and to depart from from him. They care not for the least of these, the hungry poor suffering people all around them. They are deceived and are not entering into God’s Kingdom he prepared for his sheep.
There are other who teach purgatory as a way to heaven, and works based salvation, and those love not the brethren. One road is narrow and one road is wide. Many who call Jesus Lord are lost and harder to win than someone who has never even heard the gospel or considered Jesus Christ as the only way to the Father.
He calls for "dialogue", but he is actively training pro-homosexual activists to go into churches and begin to assimilate the approval of homosexuality.
Since homosexuals do not reproduce, Darwinian biology would consider them to be failures.
The Bible acknowledges that homosexual acts, homosexual conduct exist, and it condemns such acts. It does not specify that such acts is condemned only if one "type" of person does it, but if anybody does it.
Unlawful intercourse is seen as something anyone "could" do, but which everyone "must not" do.
Twisting the Word of God is a greater sin than homosexuality.
Most conservatives have fully fallen for the idea that they can choose de-natured variations on sex (that is, deliberately deprived of its inherently fertile nature).
The unnatural gay acts and the de-natured "straight" acts are similarly abusing the sexual function by splitting it off from its procreative design.
The procreative argument is inherent within God's argument. It is "Natural Law," which God wrote into our bodies. It's not just how He structured His "verbal" law, it's how he structured ALL law: the law of our natures, the law of the Universe.
This is why God struck Onan dead, because he sabotaged the fertility of his heterosexual union with Tamar --- the only act of contraception recorded in the Bible. Just as He destroyed Sodom for, well, sodomy.
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