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To: grania; Responsibility2nd; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; TheOldLady; xzins; ...
We disagree. The closer power and economic decisions are to people, the more control we have.

We are talking about the arbitrary taking of human life in direct opposition to the 5th and 14th Amendments. By what logic do you believe this authority exists at ANY level of government?

I’d much rather that DC would stick to the small number of responsibilities given to it in the Constitution, and that’s it.

Yes, and to "secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity" and insuring that persons not be deprived of life without due process of law is at the core of the Constitution.

Fiscal problems (which were in no small part CREATED by abortion) don't mean a damn thing if governments have the power to declare someone a nonperson and kill them whenever it suits their purpose.

Why do you think Obamacare included death panels? The simplest way to fix impending insolvency in Social Security or Medicare is to kill the recipients.

Social Security and Medicare are both Ponzi schemes, but they were VIABLE Ponzi schemes as long as population growth continued at historical levels. The combination of the Pill and abortion put the Ponzi schemes on a course that could only end in disaster.

Our fiscal problems exist in large part because we are missing 60 MILLION PLUS people who should be working, paying taxes and spending money.

Why do you think there is all of this push for immigration "reform"? Why do you think the GOP seems so eager to let it happen even while appearing to oppose it? The answer is simple, we have tens of millions of people working in the United States who DO NOT PAY PAYROLL TAXES and legalizing them will help delay the insolvency of Social Security and Medicare.

Anything that can be local initiative should be. We’ve lost control, because power and wealth have gravitated upward, away from ordinary US citizens.

And what you propose is to give the power to states to arbitrarily determine who is and who isn't a person.

Here is what your pro-choice-by-state approach would mean in real numbers:

In 2008 just over 1.2 MILLION babies were slaughtered in the United States. Here is a partial breakdown:
California: 214,190 abortions
New York: 153,110 abortions
Florida: 94,360 abortions
Texas: 84,610 abortions
Illinois: 54,920 abortions

So, five states which will NEVER abolish abortion if given the choice that you and others want to give them perform over SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND, or roughly half, of all abortions in the United States.

Sure states like South Dakota and Wyoming would end abortion, but these states perform less abortions in a year than the ones listed above perform in a day. Besides, all a woman would need to do is travel to a nearby abortion Mecca.

The "states rights" approach to abortion is this, "if you are willing to travel, you can kill your baby."

67 posted on 05/20/2015 11:43:31 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

I’m as totally opposed to abortion as is possible. I believe that the way to win hearts and minds is on the local and state-wide level. Whenever anything gets settled by the DC crowd and the courts, it seems to go against anything ethical or even remotely conservative.


68 posted on 05/20/2015 11:47:35 AM PDT by grania
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To: wagglebee
The "states rights" approach to abortion is this, "if you are willing to travel, you can kill your baby."

If you want to ban all abortion in the entire USA and not leave it to the States, for the reasons you did a good job of explaining, the the only really correct way to do that is via a Constitutional Amendment.

Reversing Roe v. Wade isn't going to do it. That just sends it back to the States. Abortion was legal in some states prior to Roe V. Wade, so you are really working to create a new Federal Law. That is what amendments are for.

This was attempted in the 1970s and early 1980s several times in the Senate. The last time, in 1983 a full vote was held in the Senate, it failed to reach a majority, 49-50. Of course for it to advance to the states it needs 2/3 vote, so it wasn't even close.

Realistically do you think that such an Amendment could pass either house today? I do not.

72 posted on 05/20/2015 12:12:02 PM PDT by Jack Black ( Disarmament of a targeted group is one of the surest early warning signs of future genocide.)
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