Posted on 05/19/2015 8:25:25 PM PDT by FreetheSouth!
Jesus Delgado Rodriguez, 65, died of gunshot wounds of the head and trunk.
Jacob Lee Rhyne, 39, died of gunshot wounds to the neck.
Richard Vincent Kirshner, Jr., 47, died of gunshot wounds but the report did not specify where he was shot.
Richard Matthew Jordan, III, 31, died of gunshot wounds to the head.
Wayne Lee Campbell, 43, died of gunshot wounds to the head and trunk.
Daniel Raymond Boyett, 44, died of gunshot wounds to the head.
Matthew Mark Smith, 27, died of gunshot wounds to the trunk
Manuel Issac Rodriguez, 40, died of gunshot wounds but the report did not specify where he was shot.
And Charles Wayne Russell, 46, died of gunshot wounds to the chest.
Reporting now indicating that all deceased were killed by police gunfire. Reporting now indicating 27 people shot by police, 8 still in hospital. Reporting lowers weapons confiscated to less than 50, mostly pocket knives, chains (attached to wallets?), nail clippers, one padlock and firearms (CCP fired or unfired?).
From the outset the police description of events at the Twin Peaks (Waco) Gang Shooting seemed oddly self-serving, super efficient/fast, and unusually specific for a mass casualty event outlined in under 3 hours. It was *as if* they wanted to get out ahead of something.
waco 8
One of the original claims, that was still maintained by officials last night, was the origin of the gang violence beginning in a restroom of the bar/grill and spilling outside.
Additionally, the police originally stated that all gang member gunfire was inside the building, and all the deceased were shot inside the restaurant.
However, a report outlining the 500 page construct of the police affidavit and arrest warrant(s) claims that all events happened outside in the parking lot:
[…] The affidavit goes on to say three or more members or associates of the Cossacks Motorcycle Club were in the parking lot of the restaurant when they confronted three or more members of the Bandidos Motorcycle Club when the Banditos arrived at the parking lot.
After the two rival groups met in the parking lot a fight broke out, the affidavit says.
“During the course of the altercation, members and associates of the Cossacks and Banditos brandished and used firearms, knives, or other unknown edged weapons, batons, clubs, brass knuckles and other weapons,:” the affidavit says.
The affidavit says the gang members fired at each other and then when police tried to stop the fight, they began firing at officers.
Waco police officers returned fire striking multiple gang members,” the affidavit says (link)
Additionally the police went to great lengths to state the franchise owner/operator of the Twin Peaks restaurant would not cooperate with law enforcement and refused to cancel the event despite the demands of local law enforcement.
However, that too is factually disputed by the owner/operator:
[…] Late Monday afternoon the restaurant’s operators issued another statement in which they said law enforcement officials did not ask the operator or the franchisor to cancel the patio reservation on Sunday.
The event Sunday afternoon was not a Bike Night, the statement said, but instead the result of a “regular patio reservation made by a female customer who has been to the restaurant previously.”
“Based on the information to date, we also believe that the violence began outside in the area of the parking lot, and not inside our restaurant or on our patio, as has been widely reported,” the statement said.
[…] “We are in the process of gathering additional facts, and urge that people avoid rushing to judgment before those facts are fully known,” the [franchise owner] statement said. (link)
It would appear there are several contradictions with the initial -and ongoing- claims by Waco Police Spokesperson Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton. Including last night:
[…] Shots were fired inside the restaurant and bikers were shot, stabbed and beaten before the fight quickly moved outside to the parking lot, Swanton said
Just to refresh our memory, here is Swanton’s first Presser again: (this took place at approximately 3:00pm CST Sunday)
In addition, the number of uniformed police who were surrounding the building during the timeframe the bikers arrived at the event has increased from 12+ (original report) to more than 18+. And now includes the police stating the entire uniformed SWAT division, vehicles, squad cars, MRAP, and all SWAT equipment were in the parking lot directly in front of the restaurant.
[…] Eighteen uniformed Waco police officers including an assistant chief, sergeants and one rookie were standing by outside the restaurant Sunday and responded within a matter of seconds after the violence broke out between members of five rival gangs, Swanton said
So when we consider the police visibility -including their assault rifles- and overlay the affidavit claim: “three or more members or associates of the Cossacks Motorcycle Club were in the parking lot of the restaurant when they confronted three or more members of the Bandidos Motorcycle Club when the Banditos arrived at the parking lot“, you would have to think these are the stupidest gang members, or….. something else.
[…] As the officers responded, the bikers directed gunfire in their direction, police said.
“Our officers took fire and responded appropriately, returning fire,” he said.
There’s bound to be CCTV video at the restaurant/bar, that might help clear up some of the discrepancies if the video is ever made public.
However, it is worth noting the police themselves might have a vested interest in a very specific version of events, and no-one is visible yet to give any eye-witness information which might contradict that version.
It surely does seem odd that gang members would turn guns on heavily armed police who were directly in front of them, in the same parking lot, mere feet away. It also seems exceptionally fortunate that so far not a single stray bullet hit another building, vehicle or structure.
[…] Three of the dead were found in the parking lot just outside of the restaurant, four were found in front of the building and one had been dragged behind a neighboring restaurant. (link)
Yet, …all the gang shooting was inside, right. Right?
“we’re not hearing the bikers side, as they’re all in jail still with million dollar bonds.”
A lot of the bikers are not in jail. Some clubs had all their members release as soon as the dust settles. A couple have been interviewed and all have said that it started as a gang fight.
“Surely there were witnesses who were neither bikers or cops? I’d really like to hear what any non-biker/cop witness has to say.”
Several waitress have spoken publicly. Not much on the shooting but generally I heard that a fight started, some shooting and a lot of people running for cover.
One waitress said she saw more than thirty guns pulled out by the bikers.
Another inside the restaurant said she was scared to dial out for fear one of the bikers with drawn guns would shoot her.
I was right. You ignored it. But your silly personal attacks are rather childish. Be a man and stand up and address my posts.
Can’t you even acknowledge that the coalition that hosted this meeting says it started as a gang war?
Knowing full well that you will only come back with some childish response I will post this to you again:
It is a fact that the National Coalition of Motorcyclists issued a press release saying that a non-member club started the fight.
The National Coalition of Motorcyclists is the parent organization of the Texas Coalition of Clubs and Independents that hosted this meeting.
I can’t get any ‘biker’ on FR to acknowledge this press release. Every instance I have inserted this info into the conversation either indirectly or directly I have been completely ignored.
“So I’ve got to entertain the possibility the police were “taking out the trash”.”
The family of Boyette, Cossack from Waco that was killed, said they did not blame the police. One of them said that the police probably saved lives.
I'm not a "biker", though I did ride a small Honda 350 as transportation in my youth.
As for Richard Lester and his "National Coalition of Motorcyclists", it was trivially easy to find an article by Ed Youngblood, former President of the American Motorcyclist Association (AMA), wherein he trashes Richard Lester & his "National Coalition of Motorcyclists":
THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH
by Ed Youngblood, [former] President
American Motorcyclist Association (AMA)
http://www.bikersrights.com/ncom/lester2.html
The AMA is a pretty big organization - the "National Coalition of Motorcyclists", not so much. Maybe they'll get a Wikipedia entry some day! LOL! :)
Your Mr. Lester appears to be "an attorney of a certain kind"... LOL! :)
“I generally see the law enforcement side of the issue. This incident gave the appearance of being planned by the police to take advantage of any incident started by the bikers. “
Or more logically, the cops set up to protect the public engaged in after church activities.
Or even more logically, you just made that up out of whole cloth, Pinocchio-Boy.
Are your youthful relations entertained by your schtick? "Lie again, Grandpa!"... LOL! :)
http://onabike.com/motorcycle-news/waco-shooting-may-2015-press-release/
Thanks for the reference to that press release about the other club starting a fight.
I’m guessing one of the Cossacks started it by saying “We collected more for Toys for Tots than you did!” to a Bandito. The Bandito responded by saying “Oh yeah. Well I’m a multimillonaire oil exec - and I donated over $300,000 to charity last year.”
At that they both pulled out their nail clippers, and the SWAT team, seeing the weapons, opened up with their sniper rifles and .50 caliber machine guns mowing down the crowd.
What I find interesting in the discussions on this event is the polarizing effect it has on freepers. Either ALL bikers are the bad guys, and the cops can do no wrong - or the bikers are good guys and the cops ambushed them in order to slaughter them.
It sounds like these meetings are usually frequented by a mix of biker clubs. Sounds like mostly decent guys with some percentage of criminals. With the criminal element keeping limits on their criminal behaviour. (A neighbor of mine is friends of some Banditios, and says yes they do deal in drugs and murder - and also do the Toys for Tots drives).
And for whatever reason, it sounds like the other gang (Cossaks?) were going to overstep that boundary of keeping the violence “in-house”, and try to provoke something in a public place. And the cops were aware of it.
And in spite of the cops trying to prevent it with their huge visible presence - the gang still started something. (And people calling it a police ambush - parking all the vehicles out in the open sounds like a really stupid way to run an ambush).
One other thing in my long ramble. The idea of saying all the bikers are bad is similar to many of us often linking all of the blacks in some photo of the rioting as bad, or all the people of the middle east as bad (”nuke the place, turn it to glass”).
While it may make us feel good in a sense of enacting some type of justice or revenge - it really isn’t justice, and sure doesn’t make for a sustainable policy.
Oh - one more comment. I wonder if some think the police shouldn’t have even been there - that the cops were the ones that added to the problem. Sort of like the mayor of Baltimore saying “We’ll give them some room to destroy.”
“As for Richard Lester and his “National Coalition of Motorcyclists”, it was trivially easy to find an article by Ed Youngblood, former President of the American Motorcyclist Association (AMA), wherein he trashes Richard Lester & his “National Coalition of Motorcyclists”:”
Very interesting! Exactly what I have been saying all along! Glad we agree on something.
Not only that, the local chapters of NCOM are all run buy the outlaw gangs. In Texas the state chairman is a Bandido and all the local chairmen are either Bandidos or Bandido support gangs.
All the bikers here ignore this or say it is a lie and that the NCOM is a reputable organization. That is why I ask if they believe the NCOM statement on the start of the fight!
They will not acknowledge that their ‘beloved’ organization has put out a press release that is opposite their talking points.
Thank you for helping me expose what is going on here.
“Or even more logically, you just made that up out of whole cloth, Pinocchio-Boy.”
No. I went to your FR home page and saw it!
Prolly because Mr. Lester is a welllittle-known "amberlamps" pusher?
It had nothing whatsoever to do with your fantasy posts.
“What I find interesting in the discussions on this event is the polarizing effect it has on freepers. Either ALL bikers are the bad guys, and the cops can do no wrong - or the bikers are good guys and the cops ambushed them in order to slaughter them.”
I agree. But it is FR.
“And for whatever reason, it sounds like the other gang (Cossaks?) were going to overstep that boundary of keeping the violence “in-house”, and try to provoke something in a public place. And the cops were aware of it.”
Here is a basic scenario as I have glimmered from several articles.
Bandidos run Texas
Bandidos kill to keep HA out of Texas
HA’s are supporting the Cossacks against the Bandidos.
Cossacks have refused to acknowledge that only Bandidos can wear the Texas lower rocker in their colors and a feud has been going on for over a year.
Bandidos not only run Texas but have all the power slots in the Texas Coalition of Clubs and Independents which serves to ‘keep the peace’ in Texas.
Cossacks are not members of the Texas coalition.
Texas CoC decides to hold meeting in Waco. There are no Bandidos in Waco, only Cossacks. This is a major in your face.
Over 50 Cossacks show up at the meeting wearing the Texas lower rocker. This is a major in your face to the Bandidos.
Banditos say Cossacks attacked.
Cossacks say Bandidos attacked.
Other bikers attacked say a big fight broke out.
Waitresses say a fight and shooting broke out. One said she saw at least 30 guns drawn.
I have heard no bikers from Waco say that the police attacked.
I heard a real funny. Only it is sad since the dude (Cossack Boyette) was killed in the fight.
His family said he went to the meeting to make peace with the Bandidos.
Right. You are in a feud with the Bandidos about wearing the Texas lower rocker in your colors and you and over 50 of you buddies show up at a Bandido meeting with Texas lower rockers on your back!
Get real!
No matter how good you are at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over all the pieces, crap on the board, and strut around the table looking victorious.
I would extend that to "discussing something with Gator". Maybe we can use the poo for fertilizer...
“Um, the trashing of the “National Coalition of Motorcyclists” was about it being a front for lawsuits against the motorcycle industry, and driving up the costs for ordinary motorcyclists, for the benefit of amberlamps-chasing liewyers.”
Yes. Again I applaud you for standing up and exposing the hypocrisy of the NCOM and its affiliates.
Are you at 85, or a lower number?
This is the first detailed account I have seen from an ‘eyewitness’.
This is the account of the president of a north Texas chapter of the Cossacks. He says they were set up by the Bandidos.
Take a couple of minutes to read this. Cossacks say they were set up by the Bandidos. Details the killing of the first two Cossacks.
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