[Mrs. Don-o]

The boundaries of the State of Israel today do not match boundaries alluded to or prescribed in the Bible. So your objection is already nullified in that "Territorial Israel," "Eretz Israel" as defined in the Bible has not existed for millennia.

Not only that, but Israel is supposed to be a Messianic monarchy, not a social democracy/secular state. So it is dubious as to whether the State of Israel is the true Israel of the Prophets.

At least, that's what a number of the most religiously observant Jews believe: you can read more about that Here (Haredi Jews and Zionism)

I am in general a supporter of Israel as a nation and I am not aligned with any of the sides of this religious dispute. So if you care to respond, don't refute my position (I don't have one) but deal with the Haredi Rabbis.

[Wiz-Nerd]

Thank you. I am very aware of the different sects and their multiple views.

We are not discussing the views of man here, we are discussing what God has commanded.

Our state of affairs both politically and personally are due to our disobedience to God and obedience to man’s fallible nature.

[daniel1212]

The boundaries of the State of Israel today do not match boundaries alluded to or prescribed in the Bible. So your objection is already nullified in that "Territorial Israel," "Eretz Israel" as defined in the Bible has not existed for millennia. Not only that, but Israel is supposed to be a Messianic monarchy, not a social democracy/secular state. So it is dubious as to whether the State of Israel is the true Israel of the Prophets.

Wrong: the objection is not nullified because even though Israel today does not occupy all the land allotted to it - and which is what it can deceptively be said that Israel today does match the boundaries described in the Bible - it still occupies land which God gave it, and forbid to be divided.

Boundaries of the Promised Land can be seen here and descriptions of the differences can be seen here

Secondly, even though the form of government is different, the fact is that the Hebrews do possess land God promised to them, with a government that fulfills conditions of rightful ownership. And which they obtained after the Jewish people uniquely maintained a distinct enough identity so that Hitler and Stalin could oppress and kill multitudes of them (Rome also had a part), and they could populate Palestine, despite losing their land and being scattered into the 4 "corners" of the earth.

In addition to which was the Divine providence in defeating the Arabs which sought to destroy them beginning on the first day after Israel declared itself a state.

Of course, but sanctioning such things as homosexual parades and rights then Israel is making God her enemy, and inviting judgment, which will occur before they turn to the Lord, after the full number of the Gentiles has been saved, and which must occur before the Lord's return.

[Zionist Conspirator]

The boundaries of the State of Israel today do not match boundaries alluded to or prescribed in the Bible. So your objection is already nullified in that "Territorial Israel," "Eretz Israel" as defined in the Bible has not existed for millennia.

That's kind of specious considering that any attempt to extend Israel's boundaries to the Biblical/Halakhic ones would be loudly opposed by the Vatican and by many Catholics.

Not only that, but Israel is supposed to be a Messianic monarchy, not a social democracy/secular state. So it is dubious as to whether the State of Israel is the true Israel of the Prophets.

That is all perfectly true. However, I hope you are aware that it is because this State of Israel is a social democracy/secular state that there is freedom of religion there. The Messianic Kingdom will be Theocratic and have no more "religious freedom" than it did under Joshua, the Judges, or the Monarchy.

At least, that's what a number of the most religiously observant Jews believe: you can read more about that Here (Haredi Jews and Zionism)

Again, this is perfectly true, but the true context of this position is often missed. Many anti-Zionist non-Jews believe that anti-Zionist Charedim are opposed to the e--vil conspiracy to rule the world (which is what they imagine Zionism to be). In actual fact, secular Zionism is merely another romantic nineteenth century secular nationalism and has absolutely no pretensions or goals of "ruling the world" (but try getting that through an anti-Zionist non-Jew's head!). Far from this being the case, anti-Zionist Charedim actually reject secular Zionism in part because it isn't the Messianic state that will rule the world under Mashiach. In other words, it is the anti-Zionist Charedim, not the Zionists, who actually want to "rule the world," as correctly understood.

I am in general a supporter of Israel as a nation and I am not aligned with any of the sides of this religious dispute. So if you care to respond, don't refute my position (I don't have one) but deal with the Haredi Rabbis.

And that is one huge reason that I left the Catholic Church. Catholics (including yourself) believe that a Jewish state in 'Eretz Yisra'el is of absolutely no theological portent whatsoever. You really regard a Jewish state in the Holy Land as no different than any other state in the world . . . or than the Arabs who invented the phony "palestinian" idea as a lying propaganda weapon to destroy it?

Catholics are also completely neutral about the truth of Genesis, Esther, Daniel, and Jonah, which fits together nicely with being completely neutral about any ingathering of Jews to Israel.

For people who boast of having "written" and "preserved" the Bible, you not only don't have an atom of Biblical sentimentalism among you, but don't even seem to be able to understand it at all.