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To: Mrs. Don-o; Wiz-Nerd
The boundaries of the State of Israel today do not match boundaries alluded to or prescribed in the Bible. So your objection is already nullified in that "Territorial Israel," "Eretz Israel" as defined in the Bible has not existed for millennia.

That's kind of specious considering that any attempt to extend Israel's boundaries to the Biblical/Halakhic ones would be loudly opposed by the Vatican and by many Catholics.

Not only that, but Israel is supposed to be a Messianic monarchy, not a social democracy/secular state. So it is dubious as to whether the State of Israel is the true Israel of the Prophets.

That is all perfectly true. However, I hope you are aware that it is because this State of Israel is a social democracy/secular state that there is freedom of religion there. The Messianic Kingdom will be Theocratic and have no more "religious freedom" than it did under Joshua, the Judges, or the Monarchy.

At least, that's what a number of the most religiously observant Jews believe: you can read more about that Here (Haredi Jews and Zionism)

Again, this is perfectly true, but the true context of this position is often missed. Many anti-Zionist non-Jews believe that anti-Zionist Charedim are opposed to the e--vil conspiracy to rule the world (which is what they imagine Zionism to be). In actual fact, secular Zionism is merely another romantic nineteenth century secular nationalism and has absolutely no pretensions or goals of "ruling the world" (but try getting that through an anti-Zionist non-Jew's head!). Far from this being the case, anti-Zionist Charedim actually reject secular Zionism in part because it isn't the Messianic state that will rule the world under Mashiach. In other words, it is the anti-Zionist Charedim, not the Zionists, who actually want to "rule the world," as correctly understood.

I am in general a supporter of Israel as a nation and I am not aligned with any of the sides of this religious dispute. So if you care to respond, don't refute my position (I don't have one) but deal with the Haredi Rabbis.

And that is one huge reason that I left the Catholic Church. Catholics (including yourself) believe that a Jewish state in 'Eretz Yisra'el is of absolutely no theological portent whatsoever. You really regard a Jewish state in the Holy Land as no different than any other state in the world . . . or than the Arabs who invented the phony "palestinian" idea as a lying propaganda weapon to destroy it?

Catholics are also completely neutral about the truth of Genesis, Esther, Daniel, and Jonah, which fits together nicely with being completely neutral about any ingathering of Jews to Israel.

For people who boast of having "written" and "preserved" the Bible, you not only don't have an atom of Biblical sentimentalism among you, but don't even seem to be able to understand it at all.

41 posted on 05/17/2015 3:30:57 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The "end of history" will be Worldwide Judaic Theocracy.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

See post #42


43 posted on 05/17/2015 4:35:28 PM PDT by Wiz-Nerd
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