Posted on 04/25/2015 8:00:40 AM PDT by Towed_Jumper
See video...
Dziwny Jest Ten Swiat.
You fail to see my point and continue to distort my words. I DGAF about either of them. You are so blinded by your own prejudice you can’t even see that and then do all you can to morph my point of view into something you can understand.
“You fail to see my point and continue to distort my words.”
“You are so blinded by your own prejudice”
And a good example of why this will drag on, with many more being killed before it’s over.
“You fail to see my point”
Nope, not one bit.
“and continue to distort my words.”
Nope.
“I DGAF about either of them.”
So you say.
“You are so blinded by your own prejudice you can’t even see that”
Truth is not prejudice.
“and then do all you can to morph my point of view into something you can understand.”
No, you were plainly understood from the start. And everything I said is true.
I never doubted anything you have said about Russia or Ukraine. All I have said is you are wrong if you think I care about either. You seem to not be able to wrap your mind around this.
You remind me of this petulant 20 something I work with.
“I never doubted anything you have said about Russia or Ukraine. All I have said is you are wrong if you think I care about either. You seem to not be able to wrap your mind around this.”
Not only are you beating a dead horse, but you’re beating the wrong dead horse.
“You remind me of this petulant 20 something I work with.”
And you remind me of exactly what you are.
Sounds great. Have a life.
You too.
“it was a meaningless gesture in context of how the former Soviet Union was structured.”
Russians recognized it by treaty as part of Ukraine after break up of USSR. Done deal. Now undone by invasion.
My friend told me up to Kazakhstan, all of that use to be Iran. But it’s probably a complex history.
Even old New York was once New Amsterdam.
Can you tell me the difference between Crimea and Kosovo.
I actually think these situations aren’t equal, but I would appreciate your vision, Vlad.
Would you be so glad to share your opinion?
“Can you tell me the difference between Crimea and Kosovo.”
Absolutely.
Crimea - according to Russia - did not belong to Russia. Crimea is now illegally occupied by Russia after the Russians engineered a rebellion by the local Russian population. Ethnic and religious minorities - especially the Ukrainians and Tatars - have protested this but to no avail. Some of them have been abused by Russian thugs. Russia’s seizure of Crimea has not been internationally recognized by any notable country.
Kosovo was populated overwhelmingly with Albanian Muslims but was part of Serbia which is overwhelmingly Orthodox and Serbian. Kosovo declared itself an independent country in 2008 which was about a decade after Serbian forces - which had been abusive and at times downright murderous to the Albanian Muslim Kosavars - were forced out of Kosovo by an international coalition. Kosovo is recognized as an independent country by 110 nations around the world. Now it is an independent country and has been de facto accepted as such by Serbia which is now trying to normalize relations with it.
And there you go.
“I actually think these situations aren’t equal, but I would appreciate your vision, Vlad.”
It has nothing to do with “vision”. Those are the facts.
“Would you be so glad to share your opinion?”
No. I only stated the facts above. Opinions are not necessary nor helpful in the matter.
These people think that everyone in the world has actively taken sides in Ukrainian affairs. For example, if you don't support chechen lunatics and muslim terrorists who happen to be anti-Russian, you must be pro-Russian and anti-Ukrainian, in their view.
I appreciate your somehow thoughtful and detailed answer but in order for you to be consistent and your answer complete you need to use the same criterias describing both situations.
Otherwise, someone reading it may think you have an agenda.
I believe you are objective and it is not the case, but would you please try again to remove all doubts?
You said Muslims are persecuted in Crimea but what about Christians in Kosovo? You hint Serbs are a minority in Kosovo (as if it justifies their suffering) but are Muslims a majority in Crimea? Are any mosques burning or cemeteries desecrated in Crimea? What about Kosovo? You said there were Serbian troops trying to keep Kosovo (which was theirs since 1389) but wasn’t there Ukrainian army in Crimea?
It would be also nice for your further analysis if you would evaluate a fact that Crimea was part of Russia since 1783 (while Ukraine was never near a place at the time) and Kosovo a part of Serbia since 1389. Also the facts that Crimea was only declared part of Ukraine by a questionable executive order of Communist dictatorship and that Kosovo wasn’t 90% Albanian as far as before WWII (while Crimea was and still is majority Russian since before American Revolution).
I also like how you are stressing a fact of international recognition of Kosovo as such an important think making the most difference.
Why won’t you call your representatives to make your government recognize Crimea? It would make it as great and funny as Kosovo after all. Or not?
“I appreciate your somehow thoughtful and detailed answer but in order for you to be consistent and your answer complete you need to use the same criterias describing both situations.”
No. I must simply state the historical events as they unfolded. There is no “criteria” other than that. What you apparently want me to do is to NOT use correct history so that I would come to a conclusion you agree with. No. I will stick with the truth. If you don’t like it, you can deal with that on your own or whine or whatever, but I will not deviate from the truth. Period.
“Otherwise, someone reading it may think you have an agenda.”
Oh no, not that! An agenda? How horrible! I do have an agenda: truth. If you think you don’t have an agenda, then you should rethink your screen name.
“I believe you are objective and it is not the case, but would you please try again to remove all doubts?”
No. If you believe I am objective - which is what you just said - then you can have no doubts unless you doubt your own conclusion. A person who doubts his own conclusion but states something as true is either an idiot or a nut. Either way I can’t help you with those problems. If you’re an idiot at this point in your life, you will stay that way. If you’re a nut, I cannot help you. In any case, say what you mean and mean what you say or say nothing at all.
“You said Muslims are persecuted in Crimea but what about Christians in Kosovo?”
1) Your question is based upon a false premise since I never said anything about Muslims in Crimea. I said Tatars. Whether or not the Tatars are Muslims is irrelevant. 2) Your question is not relevant to the issues at hand so I see no point in answering it. If you wish to discuss persecution in Kosovo, start a thread about that.
“You hint Serbs are a minority in Kosovo (as if it justifies their suffering) but are Muslims a majority in Crimea?”
Again, your question is irrelevant. It is also - again - based on a false premise since I clearly labeled the Tatars as a minority in Crimea and I said nothing about Muslims in Crimea. Why would you ask, “are Muslims a majority in Crimea” when I said nothing about Muslims and the only groups of people I mentioned who happen to be Muslim in Crimea - the Tatars - I correctly labeled this way: “Ethnic and religious minorities - especially the Ukrainians and Tatars...”
You seem to be on a desperate and doomed fishing expedition. You’re wasting my time.
“Are any mosques burning or cemeteries desecrated in Crimea?”
Abuse comes in many forms: http://www.newsweek.com/crimean-tatars-fear-increasing-persecution-313111
And since the Russians have already done it in Tatarstan there’s no reason to think Crimea will be spared: http://www.rferl.org/content/Graves_Vandalized_In_Tatarstan/1740775.html
It’s only a matter of time as we see Russians doing this in the Crimea now: http://www.rferl.org/content/crimea-tatars-memorial-vandalized/25233461.html
And the Russians apparently have few qualms about burning Crimean mosques in the recent past either: (2013) http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=41522&no_cache=1#.VT0kdSFViko
(June, 2014) http://www.loonwatch.com/2014/06/vandals-sets-crimean-mosque-on-fire/
(Nov 2014) http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.com/2014/11/window-on-eurasia-unsolved-fire.html
You really don’t know what you’re talking about do you?
“What about Kosovo? You said there were Serbian troops trying to keep Kosovo (which was theirs since 1389) but wasn’t there Ukrainian army in Crimea?”
Russia said Crimea belonged to Ukraine. Now they say otherwise. They violated their own treaty.
“It would be also nice for your further analysis if you would evaluate a fact that Crimea was part of Russia since 1783 (while Ukraine was never near a place at the time) and Kosovo a part of Serbia since 1389.”
Both points are essentially irrelevant in the present situation. The Russia of 1783 died in 1918. And the “Russia” that replaced it died in 1991. Since then, the newest Russia, said Crimea belonged to Ukraine. The issue was settled according to all parties involved and was guaranteed by treaty.
Kosovo doesn’t belong to Serbia and Serbia is de facto recognizing that fact. All parties involved are peacefully handling the situation as it exists.
“Also the facts that Crimea was only declared part of Ukraine by a questionable executive order of Communist dictatorship and that Kosovo wasn’t 90% Albanian as far as before WWII (while Crimea was and still is majority Russian since before American Revolution).”
All irrelevant. Russia recognized Ukraine’s legal ownership of Crimea as late as 2014.
“I also like how you are stressing a fact of international recognition of Kosovo as such an important think making the most difference.”
It doesn’t make the most difference, but it does show that others have figured out the obvious.
“Why won’t you call your representatives to make your government recognize Crimea?”
Why would I want my representative to recognize an illegal act carried out by an invasion by Russians?
“It would make it as great and funny as Kosovo after all. Or not?”
You really can’t make an argument can you? I feel sorry for you. Everything I said was true. Everything I said still stands. Your whining and irrelevant questions won’t change any of it.
“It would be also nice for your further analysis if you would evaluate a fact that Crimea was part of Russia since 1783”
So what? Estonia was under russian rule even earlier(1721). Does that mean russia has the right to annex it now because it was once part of the russian empire? Maybe the Swedes should invade Estonia because it was once part of their empire? The only thing statements like that prove is that European borders were once constantly changing.
We’ll force you to care.
( paraphrasing the line “Putin will teach you how to love the motherland!”)
Just kidding here, nobody likes opinions forced down their throats, it’s always counterproductive, because people have their own concern etc. etc.
At the same time, I am curious, if it’s not actively taking a side, is there at least “leaning” or sympathy towards any one side? (and pro-Ukrainian side at least can claim to have moral support)
Is it indecision? (because this thing has been happening for over a year now, enough time to learn the sides. It’s like seeing a poll two days before an election, where one in four people remains undecided. After 12 months of campaigning, numerous debates, countless interviews and articles, result - one in four don’t know. What the...)
From what I know of Kazakhstan is that historically it’s a nomad country. Big area, low density, now a significant exporter of oil.
Total fraud. The regiment being blamed can’t take a leak without wearing 27 badges showing their pride. Plus,not a single mag pouch on any of the tactical gear in the video? It’s 100% fake, not even produced in the same country.
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