Posted on 04/10/2015 5:03:22 PM PDT by lqcincinnatus
All right Mr cryptic, what powers did the Federal Government have in 1868 that it didn't have in 1860?
You’re a day late and dollar short.
I stick by my original comments which you quoted. I have forgotten more history than you’ll ever know.
Surely you are familiar with the 14th amendment? Do you have any idea how many federal abuses have been since enabled by that?
Tossing religion out of schools, Abortion, Forced Busing, Gay Marriage, All the Affirmative Action policies, Anchor Babies, Destruction of Article II, Gender Issues, and so many other things that are simply too extensive to mention.
The 14th amendment has become the worst abused amendment of the constitution. It has been used to justify the most horrible abuses by FedZilla, especially through the courts, and I would have thought most conservatives were familiar with the phenomena. Virtually every destructive policy we are currently enduring traces back to an abuse of the 14th amendment.
And this doesn't even address the fact that this amendment wasn't passed through the consent of the governed, it was coerced by the use of guns pointed at people's heads. Had it been left to an actual will of the people, it likely never would have been added to the constitution.
He feeeeeels that these things wouldn’t have happened anyway or under the cornfeds. He’s wrong but will never admit it.
You get your "history" from Gone With the Wind. lol
Lincoln didn't pass the 14th amendment and his Vice President vetoed it. So I'm not seeing how all the ills you spoke of of the late 19th, 20, and 21st centuries can be blamed on Lincoln. You yourself say the amendment was "abused". So it's not the amendment that was bad, it's the abuse of that amendment. That's the same with other parts of our Constitution, the Constitution is good, it's the abuse of our Constitution that's bad, and Lincoln's had nothing to do with that.
We lost our country with Wilson and FDR.
I agree the liberals have perverted our Constitution. Just about every part of it, including the Bill of Rights.
Super Lincoln! Conquering tyrant! Founder of Marxism! Guru to the likes of John Lennon and all modern-day liberals! Roe v Wade and all ills are all on him! /s
Man he was busy in his 5 years. lol
They want to blame Lincoln, might as well go back to the framers. Abuse of the Constitution makes those that were around when it was written guilty I guess.
You are being intellectually dishonest if you are ignoring the groundwork Lincoln laid which was necessary for it's passage. For one, all those Federal troops holding the Citizenry hostage to the Legislators of the Southern States.
So I'm not seeing how all the ills you spoke of of the late 19th, 20, and 21st centuries can be blamed on Lincoln.
If you are not, then I wonder if you are intellectually up to the challenge of this discussion. Do you see how Jimmy Carter's policies are going to result in a Nuclear war with Iran?
You yourself say the amendment was "abused". So it's not the amendment that was bad, it's the abuse of that amendment.
No, the amendment itself was bad. Have you ever read it? It is the most convoluted, overreaching piece of garbage ever drafted by a Congress. It is needlessly vague where clarity is needed, and hopelessly detailed in areas which are irrelevant.
At the very least, it should have been two separate amendments, but it tries to do too much in one. The 14th amendment, is a badly written mess, and is vague and broad enough to lend itself to abuse.
That's the same with other parts of our Constitution, the Constitution is good, it's the abuse of our Constitution that's bad, and Lincoln's had nothing to do with that.
Again, this is where I wonder if you have the intellectual heft to discuss this issue. No honest person can ignore Lincoln's role in creating the Fedzilla uber alles doctrine which became commonplace thereafter. Teddy Roosevelt, and Woodrow Wilson simply expanded on what Lincoln started. FDR and LBJ topped it off.
But that abuse I cited, is specifically a consequence of the 14th amendment. Had the 14th amendment never passed, (and without Federal troops occupying the South, it never would have passed) unqualified females would never have thought they could get a job on a fire department as a fireman.
The 14th amendment lends itself to such abuse.
Another bonehead who doesn’t read books apparently.
Lincoln authored the Dred Scott decision and was responsible for the Southern rebellion? I learn something new every day. </sarcasm>
For those who think the novel Gone with the Wind (I am not speaking of the film) is a piece of foolish, unhistorical romance. I hope the link works.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1998-08-09/features/1998221030_1_margaret-mitchell-i-wrote-novel
Attempting to use the straw man tactic is also intellectually dishonest. As a matter of fact, this is dishonest several ways. The Dred Scott decision remained valid until the war was over, at which point it was overturned by the 14th amendment.
You are implying that the Dred Scott decision was responsible for the disasters that were created when the 14th amendment was passed, and though Dred Scott may have been the motivation for passing the 14th amendment, it wasn't the cause of it being written so badly and with such an over broad potential for abuse.
It also didn't cause Southern States to vote for it. Federal guns pointed at them did that.
I don’t think that anyone has said that it was foolish or unhistorical. I do believe that I said that it was romanticized. I doubt that any serious examination of the novel or the movie wouldn’t admit that it was a highly biased treatment of events.
The </sarcasm> was appropriate to another pot~meets~kettle moment.
No, I’ve been told over and over again that GWTW contains no history and that I am stupid for treating it with respect. Why do I think most of the people commenting here have never bothered to crack it open? Despite its Pulitzer Prize and it’s amazing longevity? It created a generation of historians after it was published. It is, of course, written from the southern point of view - that is without a doubt. But that does not negate its accuracy as to time and place. Another problem, is that it has been a victim of political correctness. Because its presentation of slavery and blacks is from a unique and antique point of view, it has been shunted aside as a lie. But it is NOT The Klansman.
For those who want a wonderful book written from the Union side, I would recommend Gore Vidal’s brilliant “Lincoln.” I couldn’t put it down and reread it every other year.
I’m sorry that a couple of freepers have bought lock, stock and barrel into the noxious political correctness of our time. I truly fear a time when books like GWTW will be banned.
Oh really. Why don't you tell me all about this groundwork.
For one, all those Federal troops holding the Citizenry hostage to the Legislators of the Southern States.
"Holding the Citizenry hostage to the Legislators of the Southern States". Damned if I know what you mean by this phrase.
If you are not, then I wonder if you are intellectually up to the challenge of this discussion. Do you see how Jimmy Carter's policies are going to result in a Nuclear war with Iran?
While Jimmy Carter was your typical inept Democrat president, if we end up in nuclear war with Iran, I would put more blame on Obama, the spineless congressmen like McConnell who refuse to oppose him, the media for lying for him, and the people that voted for him. There is no doubt Obama fights for the Muslims and gives them everything they want.
No, the amendment itself was bad. Have you ever read it? It is the most convoluted, overreaching piece of garbage ever drafted by a Congress. It is needlessly vague where clarity is needed, and hopelessly detailed in areas which are irrelevant. At the very least, it should have been two separate amendments, but it tries to do too much in one. The 14th amendment, is a badly written mess, and is vague and broad enough to lend itself to abuse.
Well, regardless of how good or bad it was, Lincoln didn't write it and his Vice President vetoed it. So there was questionable legislation passed by the congress...what else is new since 1868. The amendment was an answer to the situation of freed blacks in states that were hostile to them.
Again, this is where I wonder if you have the intellectual heft to discuss this issue. No honest person can ignore Lincoln's role in creating the Fedzilla uber alles doctrine which became commonplace thereafter. Teddy Roosevelt, and Woodrow Wilson simply expanded on what Lincoln started. FDR and LBJ topped it off.
So far you have given me no example of anything Lincoln did to create Fedzilla. Your only example is the 14th amendment which Lincoln had nothing to do with. I don't think you are good at filing facts in their proper places in your mind.
I'd be careful on calling names when you get your history from works of fiction like "Gone With the Wind".
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