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To: Partisan Gunslinger
Lincoln didn't pass the 14th amendment and his Vice President vetoed it.

You are being intellectually dishonest if you are ignoring the groundwork Lincoln laid which was necessary for it's passage. For one, all those Federal troops holding the Citizenry hostage to the Legislators of the Southern States.

So I'm not seeing how all the ills you spoke of of the late 19th, 20, and 21st centuries can be blamed on Lincoln.

If you are not, then I wonder if you are intellectually up to the challenge of this discussion. Do you see how Jimmy Carter's policies are going to result in a Nuclear war with Iran?

You yourself say the amendment was "abused". So it's not the amendment that was bad, it's the abuse of that amendment.

No, the amendment itself was bad. Have you ever read it? It is the most convoluted, overreaching piece of garbage ever drafted by a Congress. It is needlessly vague where clarity is needed, and hopelessly detailed in areas which are irrelevant.

At the very least, it should have been two separate amendments, but it tries to do too much in one. The 14th amendment, is a badly written mess, and is vague and broad enough to lend itself to abuse.

That's the same with other parts of our Constitution, the Constitution is good, it's the abuse of our Constitution that's bad, and Lincoln's had nothing to do with that.

Again, this is where I wonder if you have the intellectual heft to discuss this issue. No honest person can ignore Lincoln's role in creating the Fedzilla uber alles doctrine which became commonplace thereafter. Teddy Roosevelt, and Woodrow Wilson simply expanded on what Lincoln started. FDR and LBJ topped it off.

550 posted on 05/04/2015 10:29:29 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp
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To: DiogenesLamp
You are being intellectually dishonest if you are ignoring the groundwork Lincoln laid which was necessary for it's passage.

Lincoln authored the Dred Scott decision and was responsible for the Southern rebellion? I learn something new every day. </sarcasm>

553 posted on 05/04/2015 10:43:14 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: DiogenesLamp
You are being intellectually dishonest if you are ignoring the groundwork Lincoln laid which was necessary for it's passage.

Oh really. Why don't you tell me all about this groundwork.

For one, all those Federal troops holding the Citizenry hostage to the Legislators of the Southern States.

"Holding the Citizenry hostage to the Legislators of the Southern States". Damned if I know what you mean by this phrase.

If you are not, then I wonder if you are intellectually up to the challenge of this discussion. Do you see how Jimmy Carter's policies are going to result in a Nuclear war with Iran?

While Jimmy Carter was your typical inept Democrat president, if we end up in nuclear war with Iran, I would put more blame on Obama, the spineless congressmen like McConnell who refuse to oppose him, the media for lying for him, and the people that voted for him. There is no doubt Obama fights for the Muslims and gives them everything they want.

No, the amendment itself was bad. Have you ever read it? It is the most convoluted, overreaching piece of garbage ever drafted by a Congress. It is needlessly vague where clarity is needed, and hopelessly detailed in areas which are irrelevant. At the very least, it should have been two separate amendments, but it tries to do too much in one. The 14th amendment, is a badly written mess, and is vague and broad enough to lend itself to abuse.

Well, regardless of how good or bad it was, Lincoln didn't write it and his Vice President vetoed it. So there was questionable legislation passed by the congress...what else is new since 1868. The amendment was an answer to the situation of freed blacks in states that were hostile to them.

Again, this is where I wonder if you have the intellectual heft to discuss this issue. No honest person can ignore Lincoln's role in creating the Fedzilla uber alles doctrine which became commonplace thereafter. Teddy Roosevelt, and Woodrow Wilson simply expanded on what Lincoln started. FDR and LBJ topped it off.

So far you have given me no example of anything Lincoln did to create Fedzilla. Your only example is the 14th amendment which Lincoln had nothing to do with. I don't think you are good at filing facts in their proper places in your mind.

559 posted on 05/09/2015 7:42:16 PM PDT by Partisan Gunslinger
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