Posted on 04/08/2015 2:05:29 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
Jake Pultorak chuckles at the mention of “range anxiety,” the fear among some electric vehicle owners that their car's battery will run out of juice before the driver can find a charger.
“I had that as a gas-car driver, but the anxiety was over how much I had to pay to get where I was going,” said Pultorak, 44, of Franklin Park, who has owned an all-electric Tesla Model S for about two years.
Worries at the gas pumps have diminished over the past nine months as the global crash in oil prices brought the cost of gasoline to its lowest price in five years, resulting in a drop in electric vehicle sales. That decrease only slows a push for alternative-fueled vehicles that has yet to dent the overall car market, despite government incentives.
Plug-in EVs accounted for just 1.2 percent of car sales in February, according to the Department of Energy.
“There might be an uptick in demand if fuel prices went back up, but not anything dramatic,” said John Putzier, CEO of the Greater Pittsburgh Automobile Dealers Association, who cited low battery range and drivers' continued love for SUVs as factors holding back EV sales.
Sales of hybrids that switch between battery power and gas backup were down 11.5 percent in February, compared with a year ago, according to the Energy Department. Sales of plug-in vehicles fell 0.3 percent, possibly tempered by the 55 percent increase in deliveries during the first quarter that Palo Alto, Calif.-based Tesla announced last week.
Dealers in Western Pennsylvania, hundreds of miles from the closest Tesla retail outlet, said sales of Nissan Leafs, Chevy Volts and similar models are flat or falling.
Increased fuel efficiency in traditional cars, combined with a persistently low battery range in the non-Tesla plug-ins, has kept a lid on demand even as government agencies and some corporate sectors try to help.
In addition to a federal rebate of up to $7,500, Pennsylvanians can get a $2,000 rebate from the Department of Environmental Protection for buying a new plug-in car. About 60 of the 500 rebates are still available.
Higher prices for EVs with longer battery ranges remain a factor, despite the rebates. A new Tesla with a 265-mile range will cost $70,000. GM has tried to address price with the Chevrolet Spark, which costs about $18,000 after the federal rebate — but is available in only a few states.
“Once one of these alternatives can be brought to market at a competitive price, the next challenge would be to develop a distribution system that would rival the gasoline distribution system. That could take some time,” said Calvin Lane, regional operations director in the South Hills for #1 Cochran. The dealership did not disclose sales figures for its hybrids or EVs.
Research firms such as Johnstown-based Concurrent Technologies Corp. are working with the government to develop more efficient, less costly car batteries.
Grocery stores including O'Hara-based Giant Eagle have installed solar-powered public car chargers in parking lots, as have big employers such as FedEx Ground, which is adding two chargers to the two at its Moon headquarters.
“It's going to take a market stimulation. If you build it, they will come,” Jack Christensen, director of facilities and energy management operations for the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission, said about the buildout of charging stations.
The commission last year installed chargers at four service plazas at a cost of $2.5 million — $1 million from the DEP, the same amount from installer Car Charging Group and $500,000 from the Turnpike for connections and related infrastructure.
The commission recorded 79 vehicles using the chargers over the past year. Fully charging most EV cars takes several hours on the so-called Level 2 stations. Eventually, it wants to install faster Level 3 chargers at 17 plazas.
“The goal is to stimulate and enhance the market. Would we like to see more? Sure,” Christensen said.
That will require batteries that can last as long between charges as a Tesla but with the price tag of a Spark, advocates and doubters say.
“You can't take it on vacation to Florida,” Putzier said, since the mainstream EV battery range is generally less than 100 miles. “Elon Musk is probably the only person who will save the day.”
Musk, CEO of Tesla, last year opened the patents to his company's batteries to spur development.
“That is going to make a difference,” Pultorak said.
In the meantime, he and other Tesla owners — there are about 100 in the Pittsburgh area — can plot longer-distance trips by mapping routes that follow locations of so-called Super Chargers, special stations such as one in Cranberry that can fully charge a Tesla in less than an hour.
“That's the American way. Nobody wants to be tethered to (within) 100 miles from your house,” Pultorak said.
..."Plug-in EVs accounted for just 1.2 percent of car sales in February, according to the Department of Energy."..
..."In addition to a federal rebate of up to $7,500, Pennsylvanians can get a $2,000 rebate from the Department of Environmental Protection for buying a new plug-in car. About 60 of the 500 rebates are still available."...
..."The commission last year installed chargers at four service plazas at a cost of $2.5 million — $1 million from the DEP, the same amount from installer Car Charging Group and $500,000 from the Turnpike for connections and related infrastructure."...
Electrics are OK AS A SECOND CAR—But they can not replace the family car for long trips. Electrics are still too underpowered—OK for a grandmother or kid—but a real car —they will not replace.
We want a car that we can actually feel when the engine is running
We want a car that moves very quickly when the gas pedal is pushed (we don't use the word accelerator)
AND WE WANT OUR WING BACK !!!
We really, really like muscle and if the EV makers had ANY sense, they'd use electronic sound to imitate a real engine, subtile vibrators, synched to the momentum and a wing window
I quit smoking, but too late .. I have emphasema anyway, and if I had a wing window, I might be tempted to start again and go home a little sooner.
BMW i8 Hybrid & Plug-in Sports Car.
I see way more Mustangs, Camaros, Challengers and Chargers than these electric cars and the price of a Tesla buys a heck of a lot of gas.
Far less than the subsidies to keep gasoline prices low.
Like patrolling shipping lanes and multiple wars in the Middle East to keep the oil pumping. Not just the gold but the blood.
The State having to pay healthcare for childhood asthma and stunted childhood brain development caused by burned gasoline and diesel pollution.
That is why the Bush administration instituted the Federal $7500 tax credit. Energy independence and a cleaner fleet’s benefits exceed $7500 per vehicle. And this is a tax credit. Not a rebate. Tax credit. That is electric vehicle buyer’s money. Not the States.
By the way. Hybrids sales are highly affected by gasoline prices, plug-in hybrids somewhat so and pure electrics not at all.
The Volt is being replaced by Volt 2.0 later this year and a much better LEAF 2.0 is about 18 months away. So many would be buyers are delaying their purchase.
Would not think somebody who paid $70k for his car is all that concerned about low cost transportation.
Assuming 30 mpg and $3 gas, rhw fuel to drive 100,000 miles will cost you $10,000. A rather minor amount relative to the purchase price of an upper end car.
With nanoparticle batteries and supercharge capacitors the world of near instantaneous charging is approaching. Once you can fully charge at a stop in under 10 minutes the world will move to electric with or without us. Soon, people will not have ever heard the sound of a muscle car.
One of my favorite things to do in the summer is to pull up next to a tiny car at a light on my Motorcycle...look over and shake my head and say....I wouldnt drive one of those tiny things.....too unsafe.
You should see the look on some peoples faces.
Priceless.
There’s no reason an elective vehicle door can’t close solidly.
Some electric vehicles have tremendous acceleration.
But, the only time I drove a rental Prius I did find the silence and lack of vibration unnerving.
Agreed, Jake is full of it.
Ok, I read all of that and all I can say is.. Fedex Moon headquarters..
Seriously, after this second brutal winter, we will be forced to buy a big SUV because I am tired of hiking up the driveway. I am looking for a redneck Escalade.. Older and cheaper model of course.
There’s something I’ve always wondered about these rapid charging ideas.
Let’s assume the technology is developed by which a LOT of electricity can be taken on by the battery.
The charger still has to provide that immense amount of juice in a short period. What kind of power connection can do that? Not household current.
To recharge the Tesla’s 85 kwh battery in 10 minutes, it would have to feed in 510 kw. Is that right? My understanding of the relationships here is a little vague.
Seems like a LOT of juice. What size cable would be needed to handle such a load?
Would seem to create pretty significant safety challenges, though those can be handled with good engineering.
As opposed to the subsidies paid to push a technology that is no where ready for the real world, will require massive electric generating capacity and requires you remain within [literally] in sight of a charging station.
We can save the angst over sending $$’s and blood to he ME by using our OWN oil...which has been kept from us by regulators intent on pushing these electric whizzers upon the rest of us.
Knock yourself out to drive one of these. I can see where they may have a place doing SOMETHING...maybe delivering messages or being employed in some closed environment like a college campus...by closed I mean localized....
I won’t be forced into it.
After almost being run down by a neighbor in her silent Prius, I gave her a playing card and clothespin. G
I think you got it about right. Current Tesla superchargers are 400V 250A service. Reports suggest that it will recharge the battery to 80% in about 40 minutes for a p85 model. From what I've read the chemical makeup of the battery may not let them charge any faster. Lithium Ion doesn't like extreme cold or extreme hot. The Tesla's have heating and cooling systems for the battery to overcome those conditions. If they charge any faster the heat is likely to overwhelm the cooling system and shut down charging.
“Once you can fully charge at a stop in under 10 minutes the world will move to electric with or without us. Soon, people will not have ever heard the sound of a muscle car.”
Assume the problem of fast charging is solved. Consider the power generating capacity behind the electric grid does not exist to provide power to charge even 10% of the motor fleet in the USA nor does the grid have the capacity to deliver the power to charge 10% of the fleet to all of the charging stations that will be needed. At the same time the federal government is encouraging the replacement of fossil fuel powered vehicles with electric it is doing everything it can to force the shut down of coal generating capacity and will not take action to streamline the permitting process for nuclear power much less eliminate the thousands of frivolous lawsuits that would be filed by every green organization should a utility apply to build and license a nuclear power plant.
This leaves solar and wind as the only acceptable power generating sources for progressive regulators and public interest groups. Unfortunately solar requires massive use of land area which implies cutting down forests near urban areas to be a viable source of power generation. Solar also has the limitation of not generating power at night or on overcast days. Look at the amount of traffic on highways in urban areas at night when the need to constantly run head and tail lights increases the rate at which batteries are depleted.
Wind power to generate electricity has its own set of issues. First significant land area is required. Second, there are a limited number of locations where the wind blows consistently enough hours during a day for it to be a viable generation source. Third, wealthy progressives fight the installation of wind turbines in viable offshore locations where it will disturb the view from their multimillion dollar homes. Fourth, wind turbines are opposed by environmentalists because they kill birds. Fifth, wind turbines create noise pollution.
All renewable green energy generating options require reliable backup generating capacity from fossil fuel generators for times when the sun isn’t shining or the wind isn’t blowing. Increase the total demand for electric power to charge motor vehicle batteries by 20%, 30%, 50% and even if renewable energy (solar and wind) provides much of the increased capacity someone will have to fund the building of capacity and the upgrades to the grid.
I spoke to an executive at one of the largest electric utilities in the country. He said the land area doesn’t exist close enough to the urban areas where most vehicles are located for solar power to come close to supplying the needs of transportation. The same with wind. It was his point of view that if the government is serious about converting transportation to electric power in a decade or two there needs to be a plan in place to provide the generating capacity for the charging stations. If coal will not be permitted as a fuel source, the only viable solution today is to start building nuclear power plants which have a minimum 10 year lead time with all of the current regulatory and legal hurdles. Today the government isn’t even thinking about the upgrades required to the electrical grid and generating capacity because the environmentalists leading the charge know it is not possible to to provide the power through renewable resources and they will not support the construction of nuclear power plants. If they even think about the need for power generating capacity, they dismiss concerns with assertions “new technologies” will solve the problem. As far as the availability of capital to fund generating capacity expansion, no matter the source, they don’t even consider the billions and possibly trillions of investment dollars required.
Who will provide this investment? The heavily regulated power companies who are absorbing the shutdown costs of coal generation facilities and will over the next 20 years be funding the shutdown costs of the nuclear facilities built in the 1950’s, 1960’s and 1970’s? The same power companies who are forced by government to buy excess renewable energy power from individuals and businesses when they don’t need it, and provide those same individuals and businesses with fossil fuel power when the sun isn’t shining or the wind isn’t blowing?
Electric car lovers may think they are saving the planet from fossil fuels but the electricity to run the factory that makes the batteries and to charge those batteries once they are in service must come from some place. Today, and for the foreseeable future that generating capacity will be coming from fossil fuels. If that is the case, is it really more eco friendly to drive an electric car?
We haven’t even begun to cover the environmental issues associated with battery production and disposal.
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