Posted on 03/26/2015 7:39:12 AM PDT by rktman
Another name for electric cars is "coal-powered cars." That doesn't sit well with those who want to demonstrate their green bona fides by driving a plug-in vehicle. But it is in many cases accurate.
Anyone who begs to differ can take up the argument with Chris Kennedy, a professor of civil engineering at the University of Toronto. He told the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. that, depending on the province, an electric car can produce more carbon dioxide than a gasoline-powered car.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.investors.com ...
In the US, about 39% of electricity is generated by coal, and it’s dropping quickly because of EPA mandates, and the low price of nat gas.
Tesla only exists because of the California and Northeast Compact...forcing each manufacturer to offer electric or hydrogen cars.
Tesla sells the credits to manufacturers who don’t manufacture their own. Without that income, they would be totally uneconomic as an org.
Government subsidies cannot hide the full cost of wind or solar power, they can only displace them.
Everyone should know that wind power is so costly that it is only a matter of time before wind turbines fall into disuse and disrepair. They will then be seen as the wasteful eyesore and dangers they really are. They will be like the abandoned strip mines of Appalachia and then the liberal clamor will be for government to subsidize proper decommissioning of abandoned wind turbines.
Lest anyone think we should become dependent upon solar power- PV cells will be instantly destroyed by any EMP attack. There is no way to protect them. For that reason alone, we must not generate too high a percent of our utility power from PV cells.
And the generation of the electricity.
Consider the pollution caused by mining, leaching out and processing the rare earth minerals required for the motor magnets .
and also mining and processing the chemicals that go to make the batteries.
Ditto for windmills .. for every windmill there is still a need for fossil fuel plants to make up for all those times the wind isn’t blowing and there is still a demand for electricity.
Sounds legit. Have a source?
As a rule of thumb the most honest figure is the price. If the total cost of ownership of product A is higher than comparable product B, one way or another product A consumes more resources and emits more pollution. Other figures are hopelessly tainted by political agendas.
Electric Cars Leave Behind A Cloud Of Carbon Dioxide.............and ozone............
Yep, if they were serious about it, the greenies would be all over Nuclear power...
I remember the grave concerns about the inadequacy of the Grid...expressed back in the late Nineties! we’ve added lots of demand...since then...
An electric drag bike can run the 1/4 mile in 7 or 8 seconds and top out at 150mph on 6 cents worth of electricity. How much would the gas required to do that cost? It’s a matter of efficiencies.
Toyota admits that the production of its lightweight Prius requires more energy and emits more carbon dioxide than the production of its gas-only models [source: Williams]. The major reason is because hybrids like the Prius include more advanced components than a conventional car, including a second electric motor and heavy battery packs.
I don't have figures, but generally:
A big loss of efficiency is burning coal to produce steam and a lot of the energy goes up the stack.
Another loss is that most of the energy from burning gasoline in the cylinder is wasted as heat that goes out the tailpipe and radiator. The electricity in the battery of the electric car that drives the wheels is close to total efficiency.
Also from a cost point of view, coal and natural gas have lower capital costs but higher operating costs from the cost of the coal and nat gas. Wind and solar have much higher capital costs and much lower operating costs because the sunlight and wind cost nothing except for the royalty or rent to the land owner. Which is why the subsidies on wind and solar are timed to match the depreciation schedule.
The fallacy of this article is that no one is trying to convert the US fleet to electric. The manufacturers are trying to sell enough of them to pay for the R&D costs and stay up with new technology so that in 2035 or 2050 when the CAFE stds start getting up there they have the technology. In the meantime they can sell these electric cars as a form of "conspicuous consumption" or as a way of selling batteries.
Like wise, when we get to 2035 and 2050, coal fired generating capacity will be much lower(15%-20%?)than today
There’s a difference between a large-scale power plant which devotes vast resources to minimizing emissions which are then vented far from habitations, vs a 2-cubic-foot mobile internal combustion engine (times hundreds of thousands) which can only spare a handful of space to mitigating pollution which is otherwise dumped in close proximity to the general population.
Service & repair is available. Given that EVs are mechanically far simpler, there is little to do.
I have an EV. 100 miles costs less than $3 when not free outright.
160 miles/day is well beyond current EV range (even a 200 mile charge is uncomfortably close to the “brick wall” of full discharge).
My 30-person company is now up to 7 LEAFs. None of us are doing it for the environmental imperative (though there’s nothing wrong with basic environmental conservation, considering we do live here).
Last time I SWAGed the numbers, I figure installing a home solar charger for the car would cost about half the price of the car. Very reasonable.
The biggest efficiency problem for electricity is transport: about half the power is lost just running it thru long transmission lines.
160 miles/day is well beyond current EV range...
Getting actual information on pollution rates or energy efficiency of electric vehicles is surprisingly difficult.
Tried to run some numbers once on energy efficiency. Here’s the problem:
Burn gasoline (or nat gas, etc.) in a IC engine. Power is produced, drives the wheels. X miles per gallon. That’s a one-step process.
Burn gasoline (or nat gas, etc.) in a electric generating plant, transmit it to charging station, charge batteries in car, use electricity from batteries to drive the wheels. That’s a 4-step process or three more than IC. Energy is lost at each step.
There are multiple imponderables for each of the steps, but closest I could come is that a given amount of fuel will propel an electric car about 20% farther than an IC car. 20% better energy efficiency is nothing to sneeze at, but it’s also a far cry from the “100% efficiency” touted by fanboys.
If anybody has more accurate data, I’d be interested to see it.
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