Presbyterian Church (USA) Changes Its Constitution To Include Gay Marriage

WashingtonPost ^ | March 17, 2015 | Sarah Pulliam Bailey

[Gamecock]

OK Hacksaw, how's this:

[StormPrepper]

John died a natural death.

yea yea... it doesn't change the meaning of what I said. The Apostles were gone.

And thus it follows he would be the successor when Peter was martyred.

How in the world do you get to this conclusion?

Peter was an Apostle, Linus was not. There is a hierarchy in Christ's Church. The head Apostle leads the other Apostles, Seventy(the office not the number), Bishops, Elders, etc....

A Bishop in the original Church was the leader of a local congregation. Not the head of the Church as a whole or anywhere near it.

In other words, Peter was NOT the Bishop of the congregation in Rome. He was an Apostle, responsible for the Church as a whole.

Not to mention, like I said before, John was on the earth during the same time as Linus. John was the highest authority on the earth. Linus could not have been above him.

How do you know that Jesus did not speak to Linus?

When ever the Lord reveals Himself to anyone, it's never for trivial reasons. They are commanded to write down His instruction or words. Linus didn't record anything like that.

He would not leave them orphans. He would be with them always, even into the end of time.

But you're leaving off the other side of this coin. They have the right to reject Him. They can chose to be orphans. He will only walked with those that followed His commandments. To all others, He said "Let them alone."

When they created their own church, in God's eyes they walked away from Him.

[StormPrepper]

"Christ established One Church to insure that His teachings are correct and preserved for all generation."

That was one of the original intents for sure.

It was the Church that for ELEVEN centuries after the Synod of Rome in AD 382 that assembled, taught, interpreted, and preserved the canonical texts.

That's a huge assuming leap that is fraught with holes.

Christ's true Church was directed through direct communication from God to a prophet. The prophet would write down the words of the Lord for posterity.

The prophet Amos set this pattern in stone when he said:
Amos 3:
7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

God does nothing without telling a prophet. And God has followed that pattern from Adam down to John. The only reason God couldn't continue that pattern is that it was pointless. No prophet would have survived passed the 1st Century.

There was no prophet present in at 325 or 382AD.

[Steelfish]

You keep playing “internet” theologian. This is what happens when leading Lutheran and Protestant theologians decamp their denominations and converted to the Catholic faith. The rest are left stranded on the pews trying to figure out things quoting swatches of scripture. It does not work that way.

This discussion begins and ends with Petrine infallibility and not everyone and anyone can crack open the pages of the “Bible” (and yes, forget the oral tradition) and offer their “own” interpretative conclusions. It makes for complete nonsense. This is why Christ established one Church and scriptural and oral traditions confirm this. Go read the history of the early Church fathers some of whom were contemporaries of the Evangelist John.

[Elsie]

I would so much rather you insulted me, than to speak of her as you do.

What have I said that was UNTRUE?

[Elsie]

In posting, plain, not crude, language stating one's opinion in a considerate manner would be appropriate.

What is CRUDE?

[Elsie]

I'm not trying to convert anyone.

Then you are surely wasting your time.

Go to catholic caucus threads and high five each other all day long.

[Elsie]

There does, however, need to be mutual respect for that to happen.

Ask Stormy if his chosen religion 'respects' you.

---

  "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent"

 

 (The Seer, p. 255  Orson Pratt )

[Elsie]

How do you know that Jesus did not speak to Linus? Again, as Our Lord Himself said, Nothing is impossible with God.

Zero evidence; it MUST have happened!

(Do you work for the advertising department of the Alien Guys network?)

H₂

[Elsie]

There was no prophet present in at 325 or 382AD.

There WAS one in the 1830's

[Elsie]

God does nothing without telling a prophet.ha ha ha

[Elsie]

You keep playing “internet” theologian.

Well; he's a Mormon, so...

<1>3:57

 

 

Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

 

---

If the above link does NOT function; try THIS one.   Click on the second image.

 

http://mormontruthnews.blogspot.com/2006/10/robert-millet-former-dean-of-religious_01.html

---

 

 

Timeline...    Subject...

 

0:59           "Anti-Mormons..."

1:16           "ATTACK the faith you have..."

2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."

3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

 

 

 

 

 

[Steelfish]

So you now have to depend on the quote of a Mormon!

[Grateful2God]

>>They are commanded to write down His instruction or words. << How would you know that for certain, especially if the advice, consolation, whatever, was for the leader of the Church to guide him, as an individual? Think about it...

The Apostles were the first Bishops, and yes, Peter was the Head of the Apostles. The Bishops had the power to confer the authority to others, as it is today. Peter was crucified in Rome. It would stand to reason that his authority would be conferred upon another. How? Well, 2 men were nominated in Judas' place. Then lots were cast and the lot feel on Matthias. Maybe it was similar with Linus, as Peter knew he was going to be put to death, and his authority was thus conferred on Linus. Frankly I don't know for certain. The answer for me is from the Catholic Church. They did all the work for me. My time of questioning has long since been finished. I read, accept- or rather, embrace -the Church's interpretation.

Nothing about Our Lord is trivial, but there is a great deal, per St. John, that was not written; there are also 18 years unrecorded of Jesus'Life Perhaps it is somewhere written and undiscovered, perhaps not- but could the Son of God, Who astounded the Rabbis at the Temple, not have said something profound? Were there not miracles in Jesus' public life that he requested the recipients told to"no one"?

Metaphorically, you're looking diligently at the map and that's good: just don't miss the scenery God puts along the way, and His stars to guide you: remember to lift your eyes to the hills, from whence cometh God's Help! God has the answers to all questions, and He is infinite. I am a mere mortal, created in His Image as we all are. A finite creature with an immortal soul whose body will turn to dust one day. I believe in the teaching authority, the Magisterium, of the Catholic Church. I look there for my answers. Funny thing is, I don't have a lot of questions. I believe. At this point in my life, my Faith is the center of my existence, and my only reason to go on each day. I allow myself to take comfort in it, and enjoy what I can understand which has been interpreted and set down through countless generations by greater minds and holier souls than mine. I reap what I can of the fruit they have planted, and pray that my soul, and the souls of my brethren in creation may one day rejoice together in Heaven! May God give you peace!

[Grateful2God]

It’s OK, it’s an open forum, and I see a great deal of dissent between denominations. Whatever the denomination states, of the person is respectful in dialogue, we can discuss, without hard feelings. The time seems to be approaching when it will no longer be safe to declare oneself a follower of Christ, whether an affiliate or self-interpreter. Then we will realize that our love for God and for one another are more important than any of our differences. We will beg God for help and for salvation of souls. Whatever our differences, we must love one another, as Jesus loves us- perhaps even unto death! Our time should be spent focusing on our common ground: loving God; praising Him; thanking Him. Wouldn’t it be a miracle of God’s Grace if, for just one thread, each one of us simply posted a word or two from our hearts, of love, praise, and thanks to God? How powerful would that prayer together be? How pleasing to Our Lord? What a blessing to all of us, to gather in His Name? God only knows! I would love to find out, though...
Peace be with you!

[Grateful2God]

Isn't faith believing what one cannot perceive with his senses, nor fully comprehend with his mind? Something of the heart and soul?

H2

What does that mean? (Hydrogen atom?)

PS: Born on planet earth and have never had alien contact that I'm aware of... I do like "Star Wars" a lot, though. 👾

[Grateful2God]

>>>I'm not trying to convert anyone.

Then you are surely wasting your time.<<<

Why?

[StormPrepper]

The time seems to be approaching when it will no longer be safe to declare oneself a follower of Christ, whether an affiliate or self-interpreter.

You are so right. It's fast approaching. I believe this is what John was talking about in Revelation when he said people would not be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast.

The mark isn't a physical mark, it's having the same thoughts and raising your hand in agreement.

We see it happening now whenever a business owner refuses to support homo marriage. They get attacked.

Unfortunately it's only going to get worse.

[StormPrepper]

You keep playing “internet” theologian. This is what happens when leading Lutheran and Protestant theologians decamp their denominations and converted to the Catholic faith. The rest are left stranded on the pews trying to figure out things quoting swatches of scripture. It does not work that way.

Steelfish, I don't have to quote swatches of scripture to come to my own conclusion about the Catholic church. I just have to go to vast library of documented world history.

Millions of people died at the hands of the Catholic church. Do a google search on "Catholic torture devices" sometime.

1500 years of blood, death, and terror. That ain't the Church of God right there.

They can't just claim to be the Church of God, they actually have BE the Church of God. Kind of hard to teach the doctrine of love thy neighbor when you're busy torturing him to death. :-)

Please don't think I have the opinion that I do because I just interpreted some scripture differently....

[Steelfish]

We can look at history in various ways. There are enough and more books on religious historical violence and varying accounts just as you would find with the Crusades. Individual Emperors, Tsars, kings, queens, and generals are all part of this tapestry. But you should be suspect of well-known anti-Catholic websites and find out who really runs them. There are websites that purport to “document” American atrocities.

The point I was making is that we need a single infallible authority that Chirst chose to select His written Word. It is indisputable that the early Church fathers under the first Popes following Peter painstakingly gathered hundreds of various manuscripts, pored over them for nearly 300 years, and the Synod of Rome in AD 382, a full eleven centuries before the appearance of the Reformation, set forth God’s written word.

Because of wars etc, it did not mean that during this time or after that God’s Word was up in the air. If that were so then the Great Commission given to Peter and his disciples to “Go forth and Teach..” would have been a failure.

That infallibility came not from individuals but from official Church validation.

That source of infallibility did not disappear at some are later point. Indeed, to this day, it is the Church that caries the unwritten Word of God that John speaks in 21:25. God Words are not redundant, they inform and save souls: both written and written.