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To: Sawdring
Supporting Putin’s strategic

But I don't "support Putin's strategy".

I do oppose the strategic stupidity of taking on the Russians in their front yard over a piece of land that belonged to them for 1000 years.

That's not supporting Putin. That's describing reality.

53 posted on 01/30/2015 3:34:50 PM PST by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: Jim Noble
Borders come and borders go. It would be in Ukraine's best interest to side with NATO and be brought under its protection. I think people have more freedom under our banner than under Putin's.

I just checked and in the event of a draw I have the seniority here!

73 posted on 01/30/2015 4:20:23 PM PST by Sawdring
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To: Jim Noble; Sawdring
over a piece of land that belonged to them for 1000 years.

Sorry, no, that land didn't belong to Muscowy for 1000 years. before the 13th century, this land of Ukraine and Belarus was the heartland of the Kievan Rus -- these were NOT "Russian in the sense Moscow wants you to believe"

These people were the precursors of the Ukrainians, Belarussians and Moscowites, but due to subsequent history, these new people are NOT their cultural or political heirs. The Kievan Rus, specifically the city of Vladimir-Suzdal created a small hunting outpost called Moscow in Finnish-Ugric lands. This was not "historically Russian" either, but wild Taiga

History changed this -- with the Mongols coming, then the Lithuanians taking Belarus and then joining with the Poles

The Moscowites, on the other hand took their political philosophy from the Mongols

And the "land" -- from Mongol times until the 1700s this was part of various Turkic bands or Cossack hordes or belonged to the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth.

The Moscowites only took this from the 1700s onwards.

so, this "belonged to Russia" only for the past 200 to 250 years, not more.

168 posted on 02/03/2015 5:04:51 AM PST by Cronos (ObamaÂ’s dislike of Assad is not based on AssadÂ’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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