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To: RFEngineer
EV's require electricity. Where does electricity come from?

98% comes from coal, oil, nat gas or nuclear. How is environment being saved? Transferring exhaust gases from city to the nearby power plant is solving the problem?

All EV owners will get a sticker shock when batteries need replacing. I understand disposal of used batteries is a serious problem also.

55 posted on 01/10/2015 10:31:55 AM PST by entropy12 (Dumb and Dumber to borrow money from China to protect oil flow to China from middle-east.)
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To: entropy12
“EV’s require electricity. Where does electricity come from? 98% comes from coal, oil, nat gas or nuclear. How is environment being saved? Transferring exhaust gases from city to the nearby power plant is solving the problem?”

Posting your comment in blue does not turn false statements into true ones.

In 2013, energy sources and percent share of total electricity generation were:

Therefore coal + oil + nat gas + nuclear is 86%. Not that this total matters anyway, since natural gas and nuclear are pretty clean. Coal is the only real problem. “Oil” refers to backup diesel generation and represents less than 1% of electricity generation.

In summary, only 40% comes from “dirty” sources. Unless you live in the heart of coal country and get much more than 40% of your electricity from coal, then yes, EVs will be cleaner.

“All EV owners will get a sticker shock when batteries need replacing. I understand disposal of used batteries is a serious problem also.”

Nah, lithium ion batteries in cars are much different than the ones in your smartphone and laptop. Although the Nissan Leaf had problems early on, EV batteries in general have maintained their capacity quite well over time. The Chevy Volt's battery, for example, is pampered in such a way (controlled state of charge window, liquid-cooled temperature regulation) that after four years on the road they have seen virtually no capacity loss. Regarding disposal, EV batteries are often re-used as stationary power storage for solar panels and, beyond that, lithium ion can be recycled indefinitely.

65 posted on 01/10/2015 10:57:13 AM PST by LogicDesigner
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To: entropy12

“Where does electricity come from?”

Ignore this. Seriously. Even if you say there are 100% losses - the performance of EV’s on a stored energy basis getting a car down the road is a more rational discussion. Yes, there are many electrical infrastructure and political issues around electrical generation. But still....

What IS impressive about EV’s is that they get significant range from limited stored power. A Tesla may have an 85kWh battery (an equivalent to about 2.5 gallons of gas), a Volt about 16kWh (about a half gallon of gas), a Leaf, about 24kWh - about three-quarters of a gallon of gas.

How do they do this?

Harder tires....to reduce rolling resistance - smaller profile to reduce wind resistance, and instrument feedback to encourage the driver to adopt a more efficient driving style, and instrument feedback to encourage the driver to use fewer power-hungry accessories (heat/ac). Maybe you add regenerative braking too - but that’s a driving style thing too.

If you adopted the same things in conventionally fueled vehicles, you’d end up with similar performance gains in gas mileage.

The bottom line is that if you make a smaller, lighter vehicle, lower wind and rolling resistance, you’ll get commensurate increases in range for a given power plant and fixed energy store. No matter if it is gas, diesel, electric, or whatever.

Companies don’t want to “blur the lines” between their EV’s and conventional vehicles right now. Government doesn’t encourage them to either.


76 posted on 01/10/2015 11:34:26 AM PST by RFEngineer
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