Posted on 12/08/2014 6:19:59 AM PST by GIdget2004
In an interview with the Argentine daily newspaper, La Nacion, in which he discussed the family synod, the challenges of his papacy and reforming the Roman Curia, Pope Francis said: “In the case of divorcees who have remarried, we posed the question, what do we do with them? What door can we allow them to open? This was a pastoral concern: will we allow them to go to Communion? Communion alone is no solution.
“The solution is integration. They have not been excommunicated, true. But they cannot be godfathers to any child being baptised, mass readings are not for divorcees, they cannot give Communion, they cannot teach Sunday school, there are about seven things that they cannot do, I have the list over there. Come on! If I disclose any of this it will seem that they have been excommunicated in fact. Thus, let us open the doors a bit more.”
The Pope continued: “Why can’t they be godfathers and godmothers? ‘No, no, no, what testimony will they be giving their godson?’ The testimony of a man and a woman saying ‘my dear, I made a mistake, I was wrong here, but I believe our Lord loves me, I want to follow God, I was not defeated by sin, I want to move on’. Anything more Christian than that? And what if one of the political crooks among us, corrupt people, are chosen to be somebody´s godfather. If they are properly wedded by the Church, would we accept them? What kind of testimony will they give to their godson? A testimony of corruption? Things need to change, our standards need to change.”
(Excerpt) Read more at catholicherald.co.uk ...
Here in PA (least Western PA) it takes about six months. Check most civil divorces and they are averaging 2.5-3 years (two years from the date of submission, you are divorced, but property division may be an ongoing issue that can last a couple more years).
That is our only hope, to be rewarded in Heaven and set a good example for our kids that chasing sex is not the path to happiness.
Because marriage is forever, we've held off from a civil marriage because it would not be right to go the civil route alone.
I understand that remarried people are at a disadvantage (at least that's what the pope appears to be saying) in living an active live in the Church. Yes it doesn't mean the Church is wrong, it means that the remarried are actively openly sinning.
The annulment process is an act of mercy that the Church pursues. Reforming that would be a better way to go I think. But the very nature of the process can't be made more easy though. Tough call...
“Had them sign papers to make them “bastards” in the eyes of the Catholic church or he would cut them out of his substantial will.”
Your being silly... The Catholic Church would not consider them “bastards” any more than it would consider the hundreds of millions of kids from parents without a sacramental marriage.
The annulment has nothing to do with the legitimacy of the first marriage.
Costs $175 in my diocese.
It’s a shame that this person thinks this. Could be an ‘interpretation’ made out of anger and hatred...
as if that’s the answer...... paying to get a marriage annuled with what five or six kids....yeah that makes sense.
Annulment is not necessarily easy
good for you.
I remember visiting my father and his new wife one weekend. We were out having lunch and the waitress asked me where I had been hiding (apparently mentioning any of his children hadn’t happened) and I politely and cheerily responded, “Living with his ex-wife, my mother.”
quite a scam the roman’s have going huh? kind of like indulgences......
Not trying to be overly snarky... but that statement just hit me as funny in a discussion where you are waiting for the first marriage to be annulled.
Your overall post is very good, though. Just chuckling...
Is what it is. Its being offered, people are taking that offer up. I am.
I go to the real Mass, Latin Mass.
Unfamiliar only so far as I’ve seen relatives and friends pay their money and get the annulment.
“Annulment is not necessarily easy”
Sure divorce sucks for everyone, which is why we’re directed by the Bible not to do it except in very isolated cases.
People aren’t perfect and pushing people away from salvation because their spouse chose to leave is not an optimum solution.
So you’ve seen just the surface of a complex and painful process. Is a space launch just some guys getting in a rocket and then an ignition. (analogy, not comparison)
Well I can tell that in at least one case the only painful part was writing out a $7,000 check to the church. She said at one point how easy it was.
The ridiculous thing here is that she has since remarried and is very active in the Church and is a Catholic school teacher. The heterodox/dissident members of the clergy don't concern themselves with such technicality. By opening up the 'dialog' at the top, the Pope risks a huge fight. I just don't get it. But, we're not promised a Pope that will do everything correctly, sadly.
To be honest I have no idea what it costs.
What I DO know is that I filed for an annulment under the hardship application for an annulment years ago. I heard nothing from the Diocese of Hartford, CT for six months until I got a letter stating that my ex-wife had filed for an annulment after I did and would I like to participate. I said I would and supplied a copy of all the documents I sent in six months earlier.
I DO know that my ex-wife's family had lots of money and had connections in the church due to financial considerations.
The annulment came through about a month later.
To this day I am convinced it was her father's money that got the annulment.
I don't recall the specific book, but the Bible warns that those who sin because of others in authority will be punished, but that those in authority will be punished even more. I've always thought that this would apply in cases of annulments being granted when they shouldn't be. So if a person has a weak case, but the committee is overly "pastoral" and decides to grant it, then if the person accepts their incorrect decision in good faith and remarries, they really are only partially at fault.
It would seem to me that if the person is rolling the dice rather than truly believing they have a good case, and they are surprised if the committee decides in their favor (perhaps even believing that the donation played a part in it), then if the decision was wrong, and the person even thinks so, then the remarriage would be a serious sin on the part of the person.
I'm not sure if I'm being clear but if it shouldn't have been annulled, they will have to answer to Jesus about it. You can't lie to God. This is all very important in terms of salvation.
In my diocese, the (significant) costs are underwritten by our annual diocesan donations which is why I tend to give more. The costs of the canon lawyers, other salaries, etc are not minor. Having fees in the neighborhood of 5-10K give the impression of buying an annulment and thus should be avoided. I think if you can't afford the $175 due to hardship, it can be waived. The first step in an annulment in our diocese (not sure if it's the same everywhere) is filling out a 90+ question document some of which requires serious soul searching. MANY people give up one they read the different requirements for a finding of an invalid marriage or when confronted with the questionnaire.
The only thing that could be considered easy is one granted to Lack of Form, basically if a Catholic marries outside of the Church without permission. This is mainly for those who leave the faith, perhaps becoming a Lutheran or Baptist, marries, divorces and returns to the Church. Then it's just a matter of legal documents, witness statements and a small paperwork fee (certainly not 7k!!).
I don’t think his money was involved. You had all the documentation, and what slows a lot of people down is that they are slow for their own part in supplying the documentation or there is some delay in getting it (for example, from an unwilling spouse). It sounds in your case as if you had everything together and you were both agreed, so there was no reason for it to take a long time if you had a valid case (which I would assume you did).
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