Not a chokehold: Truth of the Garner arrest

NY Post ^ | 8/14/2014 | Bo Dietl

[FreeReign]

It wasn’t a chokehold.

That’s just the biggest single distortion in all the talk about the Eric Garner case, in which the public has been misinformed and misled from the start.

The Rev. Al Sharpton has never had to put himself in harm’s way to protect our streets against crime, as our police officers do every day. He’s in no way qualified to stand on his soapbox and dictate procedures. I spent decades in law enforcement. During my time with the NYPD, I was responsible for over 1,400 felony arrests — any of which could’ve required the use of deadly physical force. Volunteering to be a decoy cop in the 1970s, I was the victim of more than 500 muggings, about 30 of which injured me seriously enough that I was hospitalized. I wound up in countless physical situations and was always able to get the perp into cuffs.

[SpirituTuo]

Because if he were indeed being choked, and choked intentionally, why would the officer release, essentially immediately, when Mr. Garner said “I can’t breathe?”

My opinion is that this wasn’t a choke hold, rather something akin to a clothesline, whose intent was to force someone down, and not to choke them.

Additionally, you assume “tighten as hard as I can.” I don’t make that assumption. If that were the case, why would he be so quick to let go?

Honest people can disagree.

[SpirituTuo]

I carefully observed both videos and timed key events.

Initially, I had no opinion, and had read very little on the case.

After watching both videos, I observed many details in the press were just wrong, while others were selective interpretations to further an agenda.

Personally, I think there is an over-militarization of police forces nation-wide. I continue to be concerned about no-knock raids. So, mine was not an apologetics quest, rather, it was to develop my own opinion, based on observable facts.

[bramps]

Uh no. If someone has you in choke hold you can’t say ANYTHING.

................................................

If a 5 year old boy has you in a choke hold, will you be able to say anything?

How about a 10 year old? 15 year old? 20 year old?
They could all put you in a choke hold with varying degrees of effect on your speech.

In this situation we are talking about a very large man being choked by someone almost half his size so it’s an apt analogy...although I’m all but certain anyone here could admit it.

[Kozak]

They can put you in a choke hold. But if you can talk, the hold isn’t effective and you aren’t actually being choked. Your neck is just being squeezed.

[Personal Responsibility]

Your interpretation was that he died over a cigarette. He died because he attacked a cop.

[bramps]

Either you didn’t see the video or you are a troll.
Prove me wrong:
The incident begins at 1:00 on this video.
Please describe the attack on the cops by this man with a timeline.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-xHqf1BVE4

[FreeReign]

If a 5 year old boy has you in a choke hold, will you be able to say anything? How about a 10 year old? 15 year old? 20 year old? They could all put you in a choke hold with varying degrees of effect on your speech. In this situation we are talking about a very large man being choked by someone almost half his size so it’s an apt analogy...although I’m all but certain anyone here could admit it.

From what I can see in the video, at no point while Garner was saying that he couldn't breathe, did the cop have his arm around Garner's neck.

It was after the cop released the neck hold and while the cop was pinning Garner's face down with his knee for 10 seconds, that Garner said that he couldn't breathe.

The cop released his knee as soon as Garner was cuffed.

It appears that the cop was following normal procedures. I would guess that perps who often resist arrest complain when they are pinned and in many cases they falsely complain. I would guess that the cop was following his training that dictates that you keep the perp pinned until after he is cuffed. I would guess that there is no procedure to unpin a 400 pound, asthmatic, walking heart attack when he starts complaining about physical distress.

I would not have indicted the cop based on those 10 seconds.

[bramps]

Could you describe the hold on this man from 1:45 to 1:50 segment of this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-xHqf1BVE4

[FBD]

“Actually he was selling his tax free cigs in front of a store that sold cigs. They called the police to remove him...and I would do the same if some street thief were robbing me of my business.”

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This isn't accurate. I've been researching this story, and Garner had been standing in front of Bay Beauty Supply store, the address is 202 Bay street, on Staten Island.

Someone had reported an altercation to the vice squad out on the sidewalk. According to a grand jury witness named Trane Scarlet, Garner had intervened in the altercation between two men, allegedly breaking it up, by sstepping between them.

It's very doubtful that Garner was actively harassing anyone, because he was known to be in very poor health. He could only walk a short distance without stopping.

Below picture is the store, you can see the words “ Beauty Supply”

While Garner was no saint, from reports of Staten Island residents who knew him, he was an amicable guy who had been trying to get it together, he held a part time menial job working for the NYC city parks trimming/ watering plants. The vice squad cop, in the picture, quite frankly looks like a rat-faced tattooed up dirt bag, to me. I'll admit, I'm rather judgemental and prejudiced towards tattooed cops. But judging from the comments on this thread, we all have our prejudices, don't we? :-)

http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Eric-Garner.jpg

[The Toll]

If you think the guy on the right with the tattoos is the “airbag” and the guy on the left is “getting it together” your name is Don Lemon.

[The Toll]

Dirt not air.

[FreeReign]

This isn't accurate. I've been researching this story, and Garner had been standing in front of Bay Beauty Supply store, the address is 202 Bay street, on Staten Island.

That's no accurate.

202 Bay Street is Wig Zone. Two stores to the right is the K&A Grocery Store which is a mom and pop grocery store that plays by the rules and sells cigarettes. Their awning starts out by listing "Candy * Cigarettes * Cigars". There is also another mom and pop, play-by-the-rules grocery store, two stores to the left.

You're being too smart by half. I find caww's comment to be more acurate about the location.

[Half Vast Conspiracy]

I believe in civil discussion and disagreement.

Civil...like this?

Speaking from your vast law enforcement experience, as well as your deep knowledge from having sat on the GJ? Sounds more like sitting on the sofa, watching CBS news.

You get what you give. You cry when someone questions your opinion, but have no problem dishing it out.

[Half Vast Conspiracy]

If you think the guy on the right with the tattoos is the “airbag” and the guy on the left is “getting it together” your name is Don Lemon.

I'd say they are BOTH undesirables.

[Half Vast Conspiracy]

Either you didn’t see the video or you are a troll.

My vote? He's a troll. The guy never attacked the cop.

[dragnet2]

Lighten up on the class warfare.

Lighten up on the truth. You bet. We don't care to hear about that do we? Those discussions of Americans getting ripped off to the tune of hundreds of billions in taxes, fat-corps tax evasion scams and government tax con-games should silenced. So what if they are never held responsible, who cares. Lets focus on the non-compliant slobs pitching penny's on the streets..

Brilliant.

[SpirituTuo]

You and I vote in the House of Representatives and Senate. The House is where all money bills arise. Taxes are proposed by either house, and if passed through Congress, go to the President.

If we don’t like the tax code, we need to change the tax writers. Additionally, there has been significant crony capitalism under Obama, and let’s hope it stops under the new House and Senate.

What crimes and which corporations are “never held responsible.” Please name them and their scams. If you are talking about using a double Irish, or sheltering, or any other lawful method of tax avoidance, why do you care? Besides, every penny in corporate tax comes right out of your pocket. In my opinion, corporate tax should be abolished, as it only serves to raise prices on all goods. Do you think GE cares about your mortgage interest deduction, or giving your underwear to charity (ala Bill Clinton)? We all avoid tax wherever lawful exemptions exist.

Finally, the job of a police officer is to enforce the law. Illegal distribution is just that. If we are to live in a society of laws, all laws must be obeyed and enforced. We see what happens when one branch of the government selectively refuses to enforce existing law.

If we don’t like the laws, we should vote in people to change them.

[SpirituTuo]

It was very civil. I didn’t use any profanity, though you did

Why do you think I have a problem or “cried” when somebody disagreed with me?

I found your opinions, stated as fact, quite lacking, and I called you out with a witty, and civil remark.

You continued your bravado and braggadocio by using profanity and making personal attacks.

You followed up with a profanity-filled private email.

Since you see fit to make personal and uncivil personal attacks, it would appear you are the one doing the crying.

Quit while you are behind.

[dragnet2]

If we don’t like the tax code, we need to change the tax writers. If we don’t like the laws, we should vote in people to change them.

Oh sure, that's going to happen Mr. tutu...

Since Americans have begged, screamed, protested and voted for relief from this punitive tax system, bloated ever expanding controlling government and thing like open lawless borders, which is now undermining and compromising our entire system, right down to our electoral process...

Boy howdy, we're just gunna change it...You betcha!

[caww]

In that photo, one can quite easily see Garner is defiant. Body language often speaks louder than words regardless of what is being said....his stance reveals much if you know anything about body “language”.

He may have been standing at the beauty shop at the moment your photo was taken.... but he was “Selling Cigs” in front of a store selling cigarettes legally. Here he is continuing to resist police and remember he said.."Leave me alone"...he already was well familiar with what was to come for he'd been down that path at least 8 times before.....this was not new to him by any means, he was resisting arrest so he was taken down. He brought whatever happened on himself from the get go.