Krauthammer: Decision not to indict NYPD officer 'totally incomprehensible'

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/12/03/krauthammer-decision-not-to-indict-nypd-officer-totally-incomprehensible/ ^

[TigerClaws]

Charles Krauthammer said Wednesday on "Special Report with Bret Baier" that a grand jury's decision not to indict a New York City police officer in the death of Eric Garner, an unarmed black man who died in July after the officer placed him in a chokehold, is "totally incomprehensible."

"It looks like they at least might have indicted him on something like involuntary manslaughter at the very least," Krauthammer, a syndicated columnist and Fox News contributor, said. "The guy was unarmed, and the crime was petty as they come. He was selling loose cigarettes, which in and of itself is almost absurd that somebody has to die over that."

[jkeith3213]

You're going to sit here and claim that the cop behind garner isn't at least trying to do the what the top picture is demonstrating? Its called a rear lateral head restraint, it is a type of choke, as I said before. It pinches off the blood supply when done correctly. It can also restrict or cut off air supply when done incorrectly. I will never understand people on this site claiming to be conservative, but defending government agents killing people or contributing to their death, whether on purpose or accidentally over petty offenses. You can claim up and down that garner was resisting arrest, but most everyone realizes arresting someone for selling loose cigarettes is absurd. I do however, expect the absurd in new york, but not on this site. Also, the cop choking garner is doing a poor job of it, notice his arm position, he is more likely than not pulling across garner's wind pipe as his elbow is not centered enough.

[chris37]

I never said you weren’t free to disagree with their BINDING DECISION.

Doesn’t make any difference at all though.

You don’t have any leg to stand on or any convincing evidence to present, so knock yourself out.

[Blue Jays]

As we can see, the amount of police holster-sniffing and bootlicking is getting a bit much in this thread. Good grief, the man was clearly non-violent and this was simple tax-evasion.

Just by looking at Eric Garner they could tell he was not going to sprint down the street and vault over an 8-foot fence to escape. My bet is that he needed to be directed that this was not negotiable, others had summoned police, he had received multiple warnings, and that he was now going to be placed into handcuffs, arrested, put into a police cruiser, and taken to the police station for booking.

As to whether he needed air to speak...he very well could have been using his last oxygen with that plea. It is not like he could grasp his throat in the Official Can't Breath classic choking sign. Or perhaps he should have stated:

"My uptake of oxygen is extremely compromised and I am feeling nauseated and in great bodily distress. Emergency medical attention is needed. My name is Eric Garner for when you are summoning paramedics now. Please use your police training to act accordingly at this time, thank you."

Police have a hard job and do remarkably good work MOST of the time. On this occasion, they bobbled things with absolutely tragic results.

[Boogieman]

“You don’t have any leg to stand on or any convincing evidence to present, so knock yourself out.”

Sure I do, as you have already backed off on your ridiculous assertion that there was no chokehold. So, my evidence has already proved convincing enough on one count.

[chris37]

You aren’t going to cause unconsciousness or asphyxiation with either of those holds.

There is not enough leverage in either example to cause complete restriction of either arteries or windpipe.

It’s a headlock, not a choke hold.

[chris37]

I haven’t backed off of anything.

A head lock is NOT A CHOKE HOLD, GENIUS.

[The Toll]

Hard to argue that different actions by the police would have been better, but should they go to prison was the question at hand yes?

[The Toll]

would “not” have been better I mean to say....

[chris37]

Actually the question at hand was should the officer go to trial on any number of charges related to the man’s death.

[Boogieman]

"A head lock is NOT A CHOKE HOLD, GENIUS."

No, but a choke hold is a choke hold. If you don't think the pictures in post 254 show a choke hold, then you really don't know what a choke hold is, I don't care how much "martial arts" experience you claim to have.

[Boogieman]

“You aren’t going to cause unconsciousness or asphyxiation with either of those holds”

Didn’t I already show you, from a handbook of forensic medicine, and the statements of New York City police officials themselves, that your claim isn’t true? Do I need to repost those?

[jkeith3213]

Not true at all.

http://www.nletc.com/lateral-vascular-neck-restraint-lvnr

Quote: “25% will comply at Level Three or be rendered unconscious in 4 to 7 seconds.”

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chokehold

Later vascular neck restraint
“This hold does not put any pressure on the airway, but an improperly applied hold could quickly turn into an air choke if the person being restrained resists the hold by attempting to turn around.”

http://www.wuchikungfu.com/class%20intro/NECK%20HOLD%20TECHNIQUES%20II.htm

“Sealing the vein refers to the class of techniques that renders a person unconscious by stemming the flow of blood to the brain. It is a much safer technique to apply but one should be properly trained before applying it, as it too has inherent dangers associated even with its proper use.”

[chris37]

No, what you need to do is learn what a choke hold is, how they work, and how to recognize one. Perhaps you will be less ignorant than you are now once you do that. Until such time, I'm done wasting time with you.

[jkeith3213]

Everyone saying the cop is in right, needs to think of this logically. The cop arrested, and choked this man over an unpaid tax, and his “resistance.”

Would they support the arrest and choking of all the freepers who have said they will not comply with obamacare?

[chris37]

Dude, seriously did you even watch the video of his arrest?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1ka4oKu1jo

He was placed in a standing headlock at 38 seconds in order to take him to the ground.

He was clearly released from that same headlock at 53 seconds.

At no time during that 15 seconds was he unconscious. His hand was raised, his fingers were extended and his muscles in that hand were clearly tense as opposed to limp.

So the fact that he WAS CONSCIOUS THE WHOLE TIME IS PROOF IN AND OF ITSELF THAT NO CHOKE HOLD WAS APPLIED AT ALL, OR HE WOULD HAVE BEEN UNCONSCIOUS, WOULDN’T HE!?

Yes, yes he would, because that is what choke holds do.

Now I would be more inclined to believe that all the men stacked on him was what caused his death, but he created that situation, and I do not see any intent to kill him in that action, only to secure arrest, which he was resisting.

So, anyway, that’s why the officer wasn’t indicted, and he shouldn’t have been indicted.

[Tammy8]

I don’t defend every action of police by a long shot. What I do want people to tell me is what action is acceptable to take down a very large uncooperative suspect? I want to know if people think police have the right of self defense? Do people think anyone has a right to self-defense any more? Most act like no one has a right to self defense and LEOs really don’t.

I can agree that the man had only committed a small crime (that we know of) and it didn’t seem worthy of the reaction. The LEO physical reaction was not to the petty crime of selling cigarettes though- the reaction of LEO was to his actions when they attempted to question/detain him. When someone resists LEO whatever they are accused of; they are continuing to commit crimes if they are uncooperative. Resisting arrest, assaulting an officer, etc. and the person has escalated to felonies in resisting.

We the people have to decide what we expect of our police, do we want them to just allow people to walk away, refuse to cooperate. That would undermine their authority pretty fast. Do we want them to ignore crimes committed by certain groups? It is coming to that already- LEO do cut slack to illegals daily for any number of crimes, and blacks as well due to political correctness- fear of racism charges.

We the people have put our police in an impossible situation, in my opinion that is the reason many of the officers of today don’t seem to be the quality of people we want. It is like a puppy chasing its tail, do we need to change police procedure to attract better officers? Likely that would go further to solve the problem than other solutions but in our PC, liberal guided world it would be pretty difficult to make the necessary changes.

We have people who seem to think it is ok to be a criminal, and criminals should not be in danger from police due to their chosen profession. The quality of LEO needs to change, procedures need to change and then people need to allow them to do their job. Many have the “criminal is always right” attitude, some have the “LEO is always right” attitude, when neither is true.

[Boogieman]

I’ve already told you that those are not the only choke holds out there. I’ve already provided sources detailing choke holds that are used by law enforcement that are different than the ones you keep posting pictures of. I’ve also provided you with quotes from NYPD officials, specifically explaining their policy, that confirm all of this, and I provided you with a reference to a medical text confirming that the other styles of chokeholds can cause asphyxiation, damage to the larynx, or death.

At this point, your posting of silly MMA pictures and flat denials is simply dishonest.

[Blue Jays]

"Would they support the arrest and choking of all the freepers who have said they will not comply with Obamacare?"

---

Excellent hypothetical question.
Or what about a law-abiding person who does not give consent to police for a "fishing expedition" roadside automobile search?

My belief is that another ten seconds of calm reasoning with the man could have resolved this tax-evasion arrest far more peacefully. Even his allegedly "swatting" at the police looks more like plain frustration to me.

Very, very, tragic.

[jkeith3213]

Not a head lock at all. Originally the cop placed his arm under garners’s arm, but then quickly switches to holding his own hand to give the lock and leverage for the blood choke.
Its called lateral vascular neck restraint, a type of blood choke, not air choke when done correctly. Taught to cops all the time.

I have watched the video many times.

The cop only let go when his arm would have been pinned under garner as they were rolling him, then he pushed his head into the sidewalk.

[jkeith3213]

Demonstration of proper lateral vascular neck restraint.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&r2ct=j&ei=c5-AVLGBCoqxyQSs_YDQBQ&url=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DdHfgh8L8lBw&ved=0CCYQtwIwAw&usg=AFQjCNGQTPBC39yxF2kOOfVj9VY50hj2TQ