Posted on 11/22/2014 9:53:01 PM PST by Forgotten Amendments
A rookie Cleveland police officer shot a 12-year-old boy outside a city recreation center late Saturday afternoon after the boy pulled a BB gun from his waistband, police said.
(Excerpt) Read more at cleveland.com ...
Simple rule: If you are going to start a gunfight you might want to actually bring a gun and be prepared to use it. The only one there who knew that it wasn’t a real gun was the dummy who pulled it out when told not to.
From the article, it’s clear that somebody a)had a “BB gun” at a rec center for intimidation not regulated target practice. b)didn’t follow police orders and took the weapon into his hand. It was only a lack of marksmanship that put this kid in the hospital rather than the morgue.
Regardless, from the facts presented in the article the shooting was justified.
Black gun- from a distance it looked like an actual firearm. Many BB guns and airsoft guns look extremely realistic. If you are expecting a firearm and see a BB gun, you might not give it a second glance. It’s not like the kid had a BB gun with Power Rangers on it or something!
Disobeyed command- the officer saw the boy pick up the gun and put it in his waistband. The officer told the boy to put his hands on his head. The boy did not do so and instead presented the gun. That it was not an actual firearm is irrelevant; the officer had reason to believe it was an actual fully-functional firearm and posed a danger to him and those around him. Nothing else really matters.
Could we find out some time in the future that there were other extenuating circumstances which should have made the officer believe that the boy was not holding a real gun? Yes. Could we find out that the boy wasn’t holding it properly or was holding it out to give it to the officer? Yes. Could those things change this from being a justified use of force to unjustified use of force? Yes. But right now it looks like the officer was justified.
Must have been a white kid. No riots in the streets.
A few posts below is this one:
Children Stripped at New Philly Courthouse
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3230106/posts
In another post here, HS teaches kids what to do if stopped by police
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3230141/posts
It appears that children are considered armed and dangerous... and often are. In the inner city, 12-yrs-old is old enough to be dangerous. (BB Guns are dangerous, too.)
I agree, too many kids are getting shot. But, if I see you put what looks like a gun into your waistband and order you to put your hands up — and you pull the gun instead — you will be shot.
Parents are aware of the dangers and are responsible for teaching their children how to avoid getting shot. Number one lesson should be to obey the officer! Do not pull something out of your waistband or pockets instead.
Listening to the story on Cleveland AM news, I can’t believe the child wasn’t up to mischief or at least to intimidate people. Why? What the heck was he doing bringing a bb gun to the rec center?
I played Little League baseball with a kid who was 5’8”, 175 lbs.
I think Rent-A-Cops are told that.
It was an airsoft with it`s red tip removed. Ever seen an airsoft pistol? Remove that red tip and many are dead ringers for the real thing at distance, now that`s a Darwinian end, suicide by cop!
I agree, it’s the egregious attacks and “wrong house” and “vicious pets” and tasering, pepper spraying and murdering people standing around and violations of the 4th amendment that I object to so strenuously. Not shooting someone who pulls a gun out of his waistband.
And in the split second the cop had to decide, he knew this was a 12 year old, and that the gun wasn’t even real... uh huh.
I am one to hold police accountable, absolutely. But I don’t blame the cop in this instance, and I won’t unless more information comes up changing things.
“There is no orange warning tip on them because THEY ARE A REAL AND DANGEROUS WEAPON.”
Everyone laughs at the “you’ll put your eye out”. I work with a guy who was mostly blinded in one eye from a BB that a kid in his neighborhood shot. THEN, 30 years later, he had a detached retina in the OTHER eye (what bad luck!), that BARELY got re-attached. That was not funny at all.
Recepie for a nice riot.
Finally:
Add Holder & Sharpton, then stir vigorously.
Bring to a full boil until lid blows off.
“There are a lot of “armchair quarterbacks” on incidents like this.”
We’ve seen the results when people don’t criticize cops. Without critically minded people keeping them in line, anything goes.
And armchair quarterbacking IS what cops do to us.
No matter what cops want, they are ticking people off with this crap. And that is something they won’t long survive. Look at the article yesterday where the rookie shot a guy for nothing. And still, cops expect him to walk. They’ve lost the concept of what reasonable fear means.
“Leave law enforcement to the professionals. Monday morning quarterbacks always know what went wrong. But that’s because you have all the time in the world to get it right. Cops are given a matter of seconds, if that. It’s unfortunate the kid got shot. But it’s also world class stupid to pull anything looking like a gun on a cop.”
Nonsense. First, they aren’t professional. Professionals have a higher standard for getting it right. LE has a lower standard for getting it right.
As for monday morning quarterbacking. Get used to this, they can not have a free pass. They’ve gotten so brazen about making mistakes that they clearly don’t even care.
Most of the police misconduct accusations and crimes stem from the failure of the officer to respect the constitutional rights and dignity of the his (or her) fellow citizens.
As for the countries which teach their citizens that their number one lesson (priority) is to obey the police?
This is eventually (currently, or previously) the result:
Before you propose that children should be taught, carte blanche, to obey government employees, think long and hard about what you are promoting.
“We’ve seen the results when people don’t criticize cops. Without critically minded people keeping them in line, anything goes.
And armchair quarterbacking IS what cops do to “
Actually, I’m on your side generally. Look at my posts. I’ve pointed out that “law and order bootlickers” seem to have slithered off of this board over the last several years. But this particular incident is not a very good example for “trigger-happy policing”.
If you saw this weapon you would think it was real.
If the punk pulled out this weapon on you, you would think he was threatening to shoot you. . .and you would take that threat seriously and shoot him.
Police drive up, see the weapon, punk hides the weapon in his waistband, police tell him to put his hands up, instead punk pulls the weapon and the police shoot.
Choices were: Wait for the punk to take the first shot or shoot the punk before he can shoot. BB gun? Not a BB gun? How can you tell. . .you can't.
“Rec center” in urbanese means “gang clubhouse.”
Run away and keep running as the punk has the weapon pointed at you and he races to your ‘cover’ and you run away some more and he keeps coming at you, forcing you to run away even more just on the off chance that little precious, the wanna be gansta rapper is just funin’ with you. . .besides, we know anyone can outrun a bullet. . .yup.
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