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1 posted on 11/22/2014 11:38:11 AM PST by Vince Ferrer
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To: Vince Ferrer

The key to discovering new energy sources that work is abundant energy, prosperity and new technologies. First we have to quit playing politically correct games with science.


42 posted on 11/22/2014 1:08:08 PM PST by pallis
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To: Vince Ferrer
This analysis has been available for 25 years.

It was taught to me in Intro to Engineering 101 by a rather famous (or as famous as they get) thermodynamics Prof who used basic thermodynamic analysis and evaluation of all of the various existing and alternative energy schemes being touted at the time and balanced the daily and lifetime potential energy output with the energy expenditure required to build them.

His spot on analysis produced the following conclusions -

The only three that had any chance of producing more energy than it took to build them and which were suitable for industrial grade power plant type service were geo thermal, hydroelectric and wind turbine power generation.

Geothermal works great where there is geothermal activity but it's very rare to find a good commercial grade geothermal energy source, especially near populated areas where you need power and geothermal is very hard on the power generation equipment which means lots of maintenance .

Wind works when the wind is blowing but we are learning the downsides of wind turbines, not the least of which is avian mortality issues - these things kill birds, especially raptors, on a regular basis. Many of the California Condors and Eagles that they are trying to re introduce to the wild have biten the dust due to wind turbines.

Photovoltaic cells work great for small, isolated installations in remote areas where you need stand alone power but it takes far more barrels of oil to manufacture solar cells than the cells actually produce over a 20 year life span and very few solar cells last for 20 years before failure.

Large scale power generation from solar is simply impractical due to hardware costs and the fact that 1000 mega watt natural gas fueled power plant takes up about 10 -20 acres of land and a 1000 mega watt plant Solar power takes up around 5000 acres of land.

The only thing that has changed is that very efficient thin film organic solar cells are being developed that require very little energy to manufacture, are potentially low in cost and are well suited for distributed solar - ie where you have a roofing membrane or awning integrated with embedded solar cells .

This sort of Distributed Solar is the future of the alternative energy industry.

Unfortunately, Obama’s big push to force a trillion dollars worth of crappy old technology and even more crappy immature new technology on America as “shovel ready” “green energy” projects into the market kick start some ill conceived, impossible to implement and doomed to failure from the start utopian Green Energy Revolution to kick start a “Green Economy” has been a disaster and almost a TOTAL WASTE OF TAXPAYER MONEY.

Roughly a trillion dollars was pounded down the Green Obama rat hole and three fourths of the Green Energy power generation capacity it installed by be broken, non functional and non repairable by the time Obama leaves office in 2017. His only accomplishment will have been to make a lot of Obama and Democrat cronies rich beyond their wildest dreams.

Obama’s Green Energy Program has also been a disaster for the innovative alternative energy companies themselves and the collapse of the Obama Green Energy Fraud has put most of them out of business.

It has been a moral disaster as well, especially for the desperately poor living in remote , unimproved areas of the world.

Alternative energy is really the savior of these poor people in the Third World as it is a way to get power tot them in remote areas with and primitive conditions to allow them leave the world of dirt floors, no electricity, no ability to pump massive ground water resources they are standing on for agricultural development and basic daily survival needs , and a basic subsistence existence where the pressure from living hand to mouth leaves no time for education or modern economic development.

Obama and his Green morons have killed off much of the alternative energy capacity that was being developed for installation into the Third World and it is the people in these poverty and misery stricken regions that will suffer the most because projects never will be built that otherwise would have been were it not for Obama’s crony green energy fraud.

Obama’s “Kick Starting A Green Economy” plan is analgoues to Jimmy Carter in 1979 forcing through a “Digital Personal Computer” revolution with a goal to kick start a computer revolution by using a Trillion dollars of borrowed taxpayer money to purchase every American family a Radio Shack TRS-80 computer.

Such an act in 1979 would have saturated computer market with obsolete, comparatively worthless computers, killed off the IBM PC and the Apple Macintosh and killed off the technological developments of the Silicone Valley that have driven our economy for the last 30 years.

With the death of innovation due to the government spending a trillion dollars on TRS-80s in Silicone Valley and the bankrupting of young start up computer companies , including Apple by killing mass market demand for innovative products (I mean, who really need more computer power than a TRS-80 provides ) we would be using Radio Shack TRS - 100s with 20 mega hz 16 bit processors and 10 megabytes of memory and 100 mega byte hard drives, using VisiCalc 2014 for our spread sheet needs and playing Pong v86.02 for video games.

Obama has imposed the alternative energy equivalent of this Alternate Universe scenario effectively destroying the alternative energy industry and his central planning energy fiat has especially destroyed the amazing progress that was being made in organic thin film, nano solar technology for highly efficient, low cost and low energy to manufacture thin film photovoltaic cell technology .

Obama is an incompetent leader and everything he touches falls to ruin and his “ Green Energy Economy’ initiative is the poster child and fitting long term monument for the incompetent hubris and corruption of the Obama Commissars central planning

47 posted on 11/22/2014 1:17:03 PM PST by rdcbn
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To: Vince Ferrer

An “engineer” who thinks CO2 is a pollutant has not taken a single botany or biology course.

Or, he is just creating a four year long sinecure.


50 posted on 11/22/2014 1:25:46 PM PST by GladesGuru (Islam Delenda Est. Because of what Islam is - and because of what Muslims do.)
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To: Vince Ferrer
I don't know what they are talking about.

For example, Solyndra was a roaring success because it made some very special people a lot of money. Other renewable energy firms made similar fortunes for their owners.

Isn't that considered "successful" in today's world?

55 posted on 11/22/2014 1:33:45 PM PST by Gritty (The liberal gleichschaltung; get with the program or be flattened by it - Jonah Goldberg)
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To: Vince Ferrer
The key problem appears to be that the cost of manufacturing the components of the renewable power facilities is far too close to the total recoverable energy – the facilities never, or just barely, produce enough energy to balance the budget of what was consumed in their construction. This leads to a runaway cycle of constructing more and more renewable plants simply to produce the energy required to manufacture and maintain renewable energy plants – an obvious practical absurdity.

Sounds like ethanol - takes more energy to make than can be gotten out of it... Same with most 'renewables'. But that will change with one breakthrough invention... It'll happen IF we can keep our free market economy going - (without a lot of social chaos) and have strong incentives in place for 'garage type' innovation.

61 posted on 11/22/2014 2:10:48 PM PST by GOPJ ('Socialized Medicine is the Keystone to the Arch of the Socialist State' Vladimir Lenin1945 pamphlet)
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To: Vince Ferrer

“The key problem appears to be that the cost of manufacturing the components of the renewable power facilities is far too close to the total recoverable energy”

Silly statement from a Lefty, fellow Libertards and the GOPe are fully invested in looting the Tresuries with Rebates for Electric Cars, Windmills, Solar panels and so on.


71 posted on 11/22/2014 2:38:12 PM PST by DAC21
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To: Vince Ferrer
I genuinely thought that we were maybe a few solar innovations and battery technology breakthroughs away from truly viable solar power.

No. If we use it IN ADDITION solar power is useful but it can not carry the whole load. Neither can bio-mass (you would have to clear cut all the trees in Canada every year) or any of the other stuff they dream about. Certainly not wind.

In addition they are nice and if they quit this stupid "farm" idea and scatter them around they even add nicely to the energy grid.

On their own though they don't work. It is not the power for homes or personal transportation that is the problem. It is the power for everything else.

72 posted on 11/22/2014 2:43:14 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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To: Vince Ferrer

You mean we’re not going to get that wind powered car or (even better) airplane the greenies promised? Totally disappointing.


75 posted on 11/22/2014 2:47:29 PM PST by Lake Living
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To: Vince Ferrer

Why is that a “shocker”?

Renewable energy has been an obvious fraud for years and years.


79 posted on 11/22/2014 2:56:17 PM PST by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: Vince Ferrer

I wonder if Google’s board and pension funds dumped their renewable energy funds and stocks Friday.

IIRC Gore is on the board.


84 posted on 11/22/2014 3:09:36 PM PST by Chickensoup (Leftist totalitarian fascism is on the move.)
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To: Vince Ferrer

B


85 posted on 11/22/2014 3:09:54 PM PST by AFreeBird
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To: Vince Ferrer
"...self erecting wind turbines, using robotic technology to create new wind farms without human intervention. The result however was total failure."

They couldn't design the "necessary" model for more manufactured scarcity and monopoly. Good...all good. Silly academics. Permaculture is for us unstylish brutes.


91 posted on 11/22/2014 3:38:19 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: Vince Ferrer

They’re hurting from the failure of the Bright Source plant.

It is currently importing half of the energy that keeps it on line.

(but it kills birds in rather unique fashion)
.


105 posted on 11/22/2014 4:15:38 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Vince Ferrer

Technology Bump


131 posted on 11/24/2014 10:13:19 AM PST by Jan_Sobieski (Sanctification)
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