For certain treason against the Crown, would head the list.
But what is your point? That we shouldn't criminalize everything? Yea, I agree. But I've been agreeing with that since the beginning of this thread, and its not the issue at hand.
The issue at hand is whether criminals can be constitutionally stripped of their rights. The answer to that is clearly yes.
What should or should not be a felony and whether all felonies are de facto worthy of a blanket prohibition is a separate argument. One that breaks down to the individual acts. Would you not agree?
There is a spacious argument being presented on this thread that by lessening the punishment for serious crime, we somehow inoculate ourselves from future tyrants who will define us as criminals. There is nothing that would sway a shallow minded populace to draconian laws faster than a previous period of lack punishment for serious offenses.
Well, Lois Lerner should get the needle for her crimes against the Republic
I agree with you. But don’t you think that punishment for heinous acts of violence are not severe? Basically any convict sent to prison for a felony gets thrown into an environment that promotes more criminal activity, and teaching how to perform other criminal activity. Not all of the prison population is beyond help. Just throwing criminals into these prisons is not helping most. It’s doing the opposite. Some of them go in barely adults that made horrible mistakes, were with the wrong people, or were misled. The prison system hones their mind, and eventually tempers their soul in a permanent state of evil thoughts and acts.
Like I’m saying, people that commit heinous cold blooded crimes should be locked away forever and forgotten. What about the stupid kid that is pressured or coerced into driving a getaway car for a stupid gas station hold up? Someone gets shot, the kid goes to prison without a chance. The other prisoners eat him alive , and teach him what they know about crime. He may want to try to do something productive with his life when he gets out, so he goes to try to find a job and turn his life around, but all he runs into are brick walls. Desperation and hopelessness on every side so this time the kid is the one in the store holding a gun to someones head. Our prison system promotes this type of scenario.
However, stripping felons of their rights on a case to case basis using logic and common sense is not wrong to do. But on the other hand, stripping all felons of their rights regardless of the crime and situation is wrong IMHO. Our entire prison system is completely FUBAR is the point I’m trying to make. Some of these people deserve second chances, otherwise how can they get away from it all? It certainly isn’t impossible to do, but it is very very hard. In fact, I know a few people that have committed felonies, nothing like murder or rape of course. I know two I went to high school with, and spent a lot of time around through mutual friends. They both wised up after jail, have paid off the victims of the property damage caused, never physically hurt anyone. One has married and has an awesome baby boy. The other has worked full time for 4 or 5 years now at a job where he has been promoted multiple times, but it’s still a low wage job. He can’t find anything better even though he has skills and learned good work ethic, because of a stupid mistake when he was fresh out of high school. Both wish they had never done what they did. They want to be successful and be happy, and every time I see either they mention how dumb and stupid they were. But they are felons forever stripped of rights that I and many of their other friends enjoy. But now they have proven themselves, both are productive decent men.
Perhaps without the time served they would still be doing criminal things on a nightly basis. Maybe it worked for them, but they are still being punished after paying their dues, and have suffered because of it for years. Try raising a family when you were a convicted felon so long ago it’s irrelevant to everyone around you, your loved ones, and employer. But still not be able to get ahead, anywhere. Because FELON comes up on any background check. Can’t buy a gun to protect your family. Can’t vote to protect your family. You get pulled over for a tail light out and the cops assume you are committing crimes so you are detained and questioned until they finally realize you aren’t doing anything wrong. No matter what you do, you cannot get away from it. Twenty more years and those two will still be getting turned down by employers, gun stores, and suspected by police. All because of a stupid mistake that they paid for, made amends for, and have been forgiven by those that care about them. They’ve done much much more good then evil in their lives. Yet it’s okay to strip their rights away so they are just a shell of a free American citizen? I will never be able to agree with that.
But, back to the main point. Yes, SOME FELONS SHOULD BE STRIPPED OF THEIR RIGHTS. But not all, is my point. The people I referred to in my long post (I have a habit of this) are not fictional in any way. That’s not hypothetical. That and some family members have had troubles with the law. They are the lucky few I know that have done good with themselves despite being felons. It starts with a stupid mistake like they made, but the system is designed to keep felons committing felonies.