Gun-Rights Advocates Should Fear History of Second Amendment

The Daily Beast ^ | 12/18/12 | Jason DeCrow(?)

[tumblindice]

A. Lincoln’s ‘Blackhawk’ company elected him captain after a brief wrestling contest.
They expressed their disappointment at seeing no hostile action, and went home.

[BenLurkin]

Yes, but he still had more military experience than the current CinC.

[John Leland 1789]

The Battle of Alamance in North Carolina, a decade prior to the War for Independence, explains “a well regulated militia.” It is a militia, like the British Militia under Tryon, confronted by REGULATORS. Armed citizens REGULATING the excesses of despotic government by force of arms.

[Minsc]

The point libtards never get is the ‘well regulated militia’ part. Back in those days every male had a gun and was in their towns ‘militia’. There was no standing army then, it was made up of EVERYONE.

[tumblindice]

Also Lincoln was as tough as a Corcoran boot sole from his father renting him out to neighbors like a rented mule.
What was Barry’s experience with tough, menial labor?
Trying to scoop ice cream?

[bakeneko]

Exactly.

Most don’t understand what “well-regulated” means.

In the 18th Century the most powerful army in the world was the British “Regulars”, named such because they followed a precise manual of Military “Regulations”.

In order for a militia to stand against the “Regulars” in the field, they must needs be “well-regulated”, that is, able to load and fire quickly, and follow orders in the line of battle.

I like to point out that the Constitution is full of rules that must be followed. This is the only place in the document that the word “regulation” is used. Because it has a SPECIFIC meaning that has nothing to do with a rule imposed on the people by Government.

[ansel12]

An intelligent thoughtful man can gain a lot from limited military service, and Lincoln would have had much to think about since he knew the realities of the time, of life and death on the frontiers and carried command responsibilities as a Captain during war.

He didn’t have a lot of experience, but it very well may have been equal to or more than a hitch in the military for the average GI of our modern generations.

In other words it can’t be totally dismissed.

“”Abraham Lincoln served as a volunteer in the Illinois Militia from April 21, 1832 – July 10, 1832 during the Black Hawk War. Lincoln never saw combat during his tour but was elected captain of his first company. He was also present in the aftermath of two of the war’s battles, where he helped to bury the militia dead. He was mustered in and out of service during the war, going from captain to private and finishing his service in an independent spy company commanded by Captain Jacob Early.
Lincoln’s service had a lasting impression on him and he related tales about it later in life with modesty and a bit of humor.””

[Pox]

This “Drivel” does not hold up to the writings of the meaning of the Second Amendment in the Federalist Papers.

The author of this garbage is purposely lying and is a fraud.

[FlingWingFlyer]

What Jason and his little buddy Saul don’t understand is that the Bill of Rights belong to the American people, NOT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT. The Bill of Rights say what WE THE PEOPLE say that they say. If the government wants to break that contract between the people and the government. So be it. We’ve been here before.

[Politicalkiddo]

God gives me that right.

[rawcatslyentist]

>"Yes, but he still had more military experience than the current CinC."

Not if you count all the years of "Kill the infidel" training at the madrassa he had as a child in INDONESIA!

[SWAMPSNIPER]

I know about the 2nd amendment, my gr,gr,gr, gr. grandfather did too.

We got here a long time before Bloomberg's folks got off the boat.

Early Brass Barrel Kentucky Rifle Dated 1771, Attributed to Hans Jacob Honaker, Frederick County, Virginia

.55 cal. smoothbore, 45" swamped octagonal brass barrel, steel tang. Iron rear sight, brass front blade sight. Engraved flat-style lockplate, with flat cock, faceted-style pan, frizzen spring with finial. 2.25" wide brass buttplate, brass sideplate, brass two-piece patchbox, brass triggerguard, brass ramrod thimbles and nosecap. Maple stock with raised carving behind the cheek piece, behind the tang, and a border around the lock ending in the rear with a tear drop. Carved border on the bottom of stock running from buttplate to triggerguard on both sides. Carved border outlining the butt plate. Nice border carved on both sides of the comb of stock. Nice carved molding running from the rear ramrod molding running down past the front thimble. This rifle is one of the most important American long rifles known. Its prominent feature is the American-made long tapered and flared brass barrel. It is dated 1771 near the breech on the bottom of the barrel and has Do (short for "Anno Domini" 1771 engraved inside the box lid. It is the earliest known dated American long rifle with a hinged box, and is the second oldest dated American long rifle. The earliest dated long rifle is signed by John Schrite of Reading, Pennsylvania; it has a Germanic style sliding wood box cover. A dated 1771 Pennsylvania side-opening detached box (probably excavated) is in a private collection. While much has been written regarding the hinged box (called "patch box" after 1790) being developed by 1750, the 1771 brass barrel rifle is the earliest survivor. In addition to its date and extraordinary brass barrel, the architecture of the stock is the strongest Germanic example known to have been made in America. The massive long cheek rest is strongly molded on its edge with a convex section followed by concave molding. The back of the cheek rest ends with a graceful covered step down that terminates with a convex molding running perpendicular to the cheek piece molding. From this molding another curved step blends smoothly into the buttstock. At the wrist, the cheek rest terminates with a flowing serpentine step in concert with the serpentine relief line that forms the transition of the comb and wrist. The only other example of this complex architecture is a somewhat later (ca 1775) iron barrel rifle from the same shop. (See Shumway, Rifled of Colonial America Vol. II, 1980: fig 145, pp.610 and 616.) The cheek-rest of this brass barrel is convex and the overall nature of the buttstock has the bulbous qualities of the baroque style of the late 17th century. Hans Jacob Honaker, like the vast majority of immigrant gunsmiths, came from a provincial area where the style tended to be old fashioned. The relief carving behind the cheek piece is a simple baroque scroll interrupted by the first cheek rest step. This interruption of the carved design leaves the voluted scroll to be connected by the eye of the viewer. The ending of the scroll has a small rosette with clusters of simple leaves. The high-relief buttstock molding is incised with a front-to-back serpentine line with sprigs ending in circular grains. This "vine and berry" design also runs backward along the top edge of the edge of the cheek rest, travels gracefully down the stepped edge of the cheek rest, and ends in the corner of the brass butt-piece. This termination has two leaves pointing inward with a berry in the center. The relief molding of the breech stock terminates at the rear of the trigger guard return. At the end of the step a narrow relief molding continues past the triggerguard finial termination with a chip border and small leaves. The breech pin tang carving is also closely related with a three-leaf termination. The wrist carving terminates with a cluster of three leaves when it meets the incise-carved border that surrounds the brass box arched finial. A chip border follows the brass butt-piece along its back and front to the butt-piece top extension. The chipped borders are connected by an incised line that parallels the top extension on both sides of the butt-piece. These combined borders completely surround the butt-piece. All of the carving is beautifully integrated with the complexly shaped stock. The stock architecture suggest that Hans Jacob Honaker was trained in gun stocking in Switzerland. The carved decorations are more aligned with American backcountry long rifle art -- baroque design combined with folk art qualities. This combination of architecture and carved decoration like this brass hinged box and brass barrel makes an outstanding American frontier statement from 1771. Like many early American rifle guns, the brass barrel was bored smooth in its latest stage of active use. Fortunately, in this conversion to shot gun the remnants of the hind sight survived, revealing that it was originally a folding leaf long-range type. This leaf sight is matched by only one other 18th Century American example. A rifle of ca 1775 from Shenandoah County, Virginia, has an intact leaf sight and it also shares some carved and architectural features with the brass barrel rifle. The exceptionally large and boldly sculptured triggerguard is unique to the Hans Jacob Honaker Shop, which was the first to develop a strong regional type that extended throughout southwest Virginia and Tennessee in the late 18th and early 19th century. The guard stud was fitted with a sling swivel, and the middle barrel loop is thicker than the others to retain the forward sling swivel. The front of the guard bow has a deep wear groove from the swivel hitting, showing the rifle was carried hundreds of miles without a sling attached. The imported Germanic lock has remained in its original flint lock form, although the cock was replaced (ca 1789, English origin) during its active use. Since the rifle was used in the late 18th century with this cock, it has been retained as an important part of the rifle's history. The overall age of this brass barrel rifle is evident in the shrinkage of the curly maple breech stock. The butt-piece now extends well beyond the toe and shrinkage stress cracks penetrate the relief carving behind the cheek rest. The witness of the mismatch of the relief buttstock molding is obvious on the lower edge of the toe of the brass butt-piece. On the box side the shrinkage has eliminated part of the incise-carved molding next to the door on the toe side. The deep black patina highlighted by wear is another important record of the rifle's age. This rifle is a singular bench mark of backcountry production, reflecting the dynamic cultural amalgam of the American frontier. ATTRIBUTION: The attribution of the brass barrel rifle to Hans Jacob Honaker is based on artistic and structural details found on rifles made by his sons and grandsons. They have a common architecture of the breech stock that has a prominent "step toe" or "step wrist." The step ends at the rear extension of the guard; the profile of the toe is straight from there to the butt-piece. The comb profile of these stocks typically is a moderate "Roman nose" profile, although occasionally makers used an almost straight line. A very unusual structural feature that occurs constantly throughout the group is the breech pin tang held with a wood screw rather than a draw screw that enters the trigger plate. The two earliest rifles in the group, (i.e., this brass rifle of 1771 and the iron barrel example, ca 1775) both have their first barrel retaining pins placed in front of the end of the fore stock, offset in the fore end adjacent to rear thimble. Other Shenandoah rifles of the early period also have this unusual placement. This forward placement of the first barrel retaining pin is not a feature found on Pennsylvania long rifles. In the Valley of Virginia, including in the products of the early gunsmiths of the Honaker family, the long pin placement does not extend into the post-Revolutionary Federal period. The placement is moved back closer to the breech between the locks and the tail piece (called "rear ramrod thimble" in modern times.) While the brass barrel rifle has a single trigger, it is important that Hans Jacob Honaker's sons and grandchildren made set triggers of a distinct type associated with Germanic wheel-lock guns. They have springs held by a single screw that is mounted in the front of the trigger plate. All three Honaker family rifles offered here have set triggers of this structure that is exclusively a Honaker or a Honaker-associated feature. At this writing no other makers in American backcountry are known to have used this type.

[Jacquerie]

After putting down a mutiny of his soldiers in 1783, George Washington wrote a letter to all the states which outlined his thoughts on changes to the hapless Articles of Confederation.

Washington envisioned a nation protected by an armed citizenry:

“It is necessary to say but a few words on the third topic which was proposed, and which regards particularly the defence of the Republic, As there can be little doubt but Congress will recommend a proper Peace Establishment for the United States, in which a due attention will be paid to the importance of placing the Militia of the Union upon a regular and respectable footing; If this should be the case, I would beg leave to urge the great advantage of it in the strongest terms. The Militia of this Country must be considered as the Palladium of our security, and the first effectual resort in case of hostility; It is essential therefore, that the same system should pervade the whole; that the formation and discipline of the Militia of the Continent should be absolutely uniform, and that the same species of Arms, Accoutrements and Military Apparatus, should be introduced in every part of the United States; No one, (who has not learned it from experience, can conceive the difficulty, expence, and confusion which result from a contrary system, or the vague Arrangements which have hitherto prevailed.”

[Bobalu]

Those that contend that the 2nd only gives the right to bear arms to a militia (army) are arguing that the founders actually envisioned a day when an army of the United States might be deprived of the right to bear arms...this makes no sense at all. Who in their right mind could envision an army or militia that was devoid of arms!?

[TigersEye]

That is a brilliant point. Well put!

[sauron]

TALKING POINT #1:

...the right of the MILITIA to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

OOOPS. It doesn’t say that! It’s the right of the PEOPLE, isn’t it? (Point that out to a liberal friend.)

TALKING POINT #2:

Note that no other right in the Bill of Rights had the language “...shall not be infringed” in it. Pretty strong language, eh?

The First Amendment has been expanded, expanded, and...well, expanded like a balloon. The Second has been restricted over time, DESPITE the strong language (”...shall not be infringed”).

TALKING POINT #3:

The Bill of Rights (first ten amendments) were numbered the way they are currently because that’s the order in which they were passed by the respective state legislatures.

Tells ya somethin’, huh?

Tells you that there was very easy agreement on passing the First Amendment, the Second Amendment, the Third Amendment...etc., and less agreement on the Ninth Amendment, the Tenth, etc.

This tears down liberal talking points. Refute them thusly.

[Iron Munro]

What was Barry’s experience with tough, menial labor?
Trying to scoop ice cream?

Picking marijuana seeds out of the carpet in the Choom-mobile while stoned out of his gourd.

[Iron Munro]

in my haste, I said “dribble”, not “drivel”

I think "dribble" is an apt description.

[Iron Munro]

Thanks for the link to “THE UNABRIDGED SECOND AMENDMENT”

That analysis puts the lie to all of those anti-gun advocates who twist the meaning of the second amendment to make their case.

[ansel12]

That is a good point, the right of the military to be armed....