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To: BroJoeK

Actually you need to back up a ways.

It all starts with our initial position: if we accept the premise that the Bible isn’t the true word of God, then knowledge of God’s existence is either nonexistent or extremely unlikely.

But if the opposite premise is true, then every one of us already has innate knowledge of God and therefore belief in God is at least equally if not more valid than belief in the blue sky.

“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse” (Romans 1:20)


72 posted on 10/01/2014 8:28:31 PM PDT by reasonisfaith ("...because they believed not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2 Thessalonians))
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To: reasonisfaith
reasonisfaith: "...if we accept the premise that the Bible isn’t the true word of God, then knowledge of God’s existence is either nonexistent or extremely unlikely."

Of course the Bible is the "true word of God", spoken to and recorded by prophets of old, for the benefit of people who were 95+% illiterate, and utterly unfamiliar with science as we know it today.

Did you expect that God would reveal the secrets of relativity (i.e., E=MC2) to Moses from a burning bush?!
Moses had other immediate existential concerns, and would not have benefitted from such equations.
So, relativity would wait for one of Moses' descendants, at a time in history when such equations could become part of the answer to another existential problem: the Holocaust.

reasonisfaith: "But if the opposite premise is true, then every one of us already has innate knowledge of God and therefore belief in God is at least equally if not more valid than belief in the blue sky."

Since the age of Adam, awareness of God has been essential to human psyche, indeed, defining what we mean by the term "fully human".
I say this despite the obvious fact that growing numbers now claim to be atheists -- the truth is they simply refuse to properly identify and name their real gods, "gods" which if fully known would be as frightful as any from ancient history.
Point is: humans all serve some form of God, or gods, it's built into our DNA, so to speak.

But God was usually considered a spirit, giving us a significant difference between, for example, our knowledge of "blue sky" and our awareness of God.
The distinction here is important to understand and maintain, because the entire scientific enterprise is based on it: "blue sky" comes from the natural realm, and can be studied with natural-sciences, using all the measuring tools & ideas at our disposal.
By contrast, God is super-natural, spiritual, and requires from us a very different approach, one which for thousands of years now has been taught in churches and temples.

Bottom line: it is useless and unnecessary to pit science against religion.
Properly understood, they are not in conflict and can indeed be shown to fully support each other, imho.

75 posted on 10/02/2014 9:37:05 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective..)
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