Posted on 09/07/2014 2:06:39 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
George Osborne was on Sunday scrambling to head off a surge in support for Scottish independence with a promise of more powers for Holyrood, but behind the scenes some senior Tories were preparing for possible defeat.
... Rupert Murdoch, the media tycoon, claimed in a tweet that Mr Salmond’s private polls gave the Yes vote an advantage of 54-46
(Excerpt) Read more at ft.com ...
What flag would the “Less-than-United Kingdom” use?
they would have to remove the diagonal white “X” of Scotland from the now-smaller-Union Jack,
I have my doubts about that. The tories are in Government now, they will own this mess. They are finished if the ‘Yes’ vote prevails. UKIP support will rocket, but this will primarily benefit Labour, although they too will suffer inroads from UKIP.
You want America’s most important ally to implode so that a socialist-leaning nation can form instead which is anti-nuclear and essentially hostile to US foreign policy?
The socialist Scotland would quickly turn more conservative, having run out of Other People's Money (OPM).
Also, we have our independence, why shouldn't they? They were a separate country and are still named as such.
I am 100% in favor of this change. You should be, too. Especially since your name implies you enjoy thinking strategically.
My former boss at work is a migrant from Scotland. He is in his mid to late 30s now, and lived and grew up in Scotland until 25. His verdict on your analysis ConservativeMind is:
“fantasic fantasy and full of wishful thinking”
He said that you have conveniently ignored that nationalists in Scotland have nothing in common with historic William Wallace and Scottish Enlighenment. The last person the modern day Scottish nationalists like is Adam Smith. You will find, he says, they are a combination between leftism and nationalism. And my ex-boss is someone who’s probably more on the RINO scale than bona fide conservative.
I don’t really have any personal interest in this debate, but your claim that:
“The socialist Scotland would quickly turn more conservative, having run out of Other People’s Money (OPM).”
you are basing this on your American assumption. The Scottish people never thinks like that. What will happen is that they will beg the IMF and Brussels (the EU) to bail them out. The consequence is that Angela Merkel will be the unofficial boss of Alex Salmond in no time.
“Especially since your name implies you enjoy thinking strategically.”
Strategically what happens is that the UKIP will quick point their energy in devouring the independent Scotland, and likewise Alex Salmond will spend his time warring with England. With that prospect I can tell you that it is time to learn German if you are aiming to be a “somebody” in international business and global leadership, because the English-speaking world’s dominant influence will want quickly, and the baton of the entire West’s leadership will pass on to Germany unoppoosed.
Guten Tag. Sprechen Sie Deutsche?
[img]http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-patriotism-is-when-love-of-your-own-people-comes-first-nationalism-when-hate-for-people-other-charles-de-gaulle-69197.jpg[/img]
I’m with you on that one. I’m neither young nor retired, but I suspect my 2 year old youngest nephew may end his days seeing the entire English-speaking world reduced to nothing but a patchwork of micro city states, all plying one against each other. Sure philosophies and technology will grow, but they will all be pawns of the greater powers. At beast they may confederate into multiple Switzerlands - prosperous yes, and self-governing yes, but very inconsequential and at the mercy of the dominant powers of the day.
I have resolved now to encourage my nephew and any kids I may have to start learning German. kind of expect the West to be led by some Franco-German combination. We will be back to the early Middle Ages with the Frankish Empire leading the “West” and Charlemagne etc., and Britain was just a patchwork of micro fiefdoms constantly at war.
This article from the Claremont Institute explains perfectly why “we like self determination” to the nth degree is a dumb idea, justified from their own nation’s founding era. And it was written back in the1780s!
It applies equally to modern Britain as the US:
http://www.claremont.org/basicpage/sewards-folly-or-farsightedness/#.VBDEztkazCQ
“During the crisis of the 1780s, some Americans went so far as to question the viability of a geographically expansive Union. They pointed to the difficulty of governing such a massive territory without a despotic central government, and to the distinct interests that seemed to mark particular sections. Some in the West explored the idea of reaching an arrangement with Spain to separate from the United States. Others entertained the possibility of allowing three or four separate confederacies to emerge. Because each would have a republican form of government, they presumably could inhabit peacefully the same geopolitical space and trade to their mutual advantage. (It is difficult to find any important American political figure who explicitly made this case, but had efforts at constitutional reform failed, this might well have been the default outcome.)
The Constitution of 1787 offered an alternative—a large, commercial and federal republic—based on the assumption that nature and the American experiment in self-government could be aligned perfectly. Anything less would be disastrous. As Publius put it:
This country and this people seem to have been made for each other, and it appears as if it was the design of Providence, that an inheritance so proper and convenient for a band of brethren, united to each other by the strongest ties, should never be split into a number of unsocial, jealous, and alien sovereignties.
The relations among these independent sovereignties, Publius insisted, would not be characterized by peace and commerce but by unceasing conflicts of interests and war. The struggle to control an unnaturally divided geopolitical space would override the republican instincts of the people. North America would be racked with wars, just as Europe had been for centuries.
- See more at: http://www.claremont.org/basicpage/sewards-folly-or-farsightedness/#.VBDEztkazCQ";
My solution to this would be complete federalisation. Let Scotland, Wales, NI and the English regions have complete control over their internal affairs but have the central government in charge of foreign, defence and monetary issues. I believe this is more or less what the US (originally at least before the US Civil War) had.
1) Germany is stretched way too thin with the EU loans they've already given that won't be repaid. The IMF would likely make an initial loan, though—I grant this.
2) The UKIP won't make inroads in Scotland for a huge amount of time. The sheer number of Socialist representatives show Scotland to be an example of a place that won't learn quickly. If the UKIP ever did make progress with Scotland, it would be a positive event. The UKIP is the only party that can undo the cr@* that everyone else has put in place over centuries.
I am a huge UKIP fan. The Tories are as conservative and sane as John Kerry.
I guess when you identify with two small islands your whole life, you can believe Germany and France could rule the world.
The US, China, Russia, and India might think a bit differently. And, incidentally, it’s been proven twice that such a prophesy can’t come true.
There won’t be a US or Australia or for that matter New Zealand left by then. The English speaking world will have the state of New York, the state of Chicago, the states of London, Edinburgh, Sydney, Christchurch etc. But yes, I don’t see why will be any English-speaking nation state left by the time my toddler nephew is in his last years, if Scotland does become independent after the referendum next year. And before you cheer for all the technology advances, have a read at Italy during the Middle Ages. Constant wars, strifes, shifting alliances, France and Germany and Russia meddling and interfering and often being invited by some alliances of English-speaking City States against another alliance.
And oh, BTW yes, the English-speaking world will produce many 21st century machiavellis.
The best alternative without war would be all the micro states have becom confederations so you get little Switzerlands. Rich, inventive and self governing, but can hardly even control it’s own destiny on the international and are on the fringe in geopolitics.
I still stand by my assertions that significant nation states from cultures not subject to local separatism ideology, such as France and Germany, will be able to exert the most influence out wards, and pick up leadership of the West by default just because they will be the “biggest dogs” left after the Anglo-Saxon world decided to commit national suicide by dividing it’s four of existence.
Just like during the 8th century when Charlemagne as the King of Frank.
Oh, it’s so nice to meet you at last, Mr Fisk. I didn’t realise you were presenting such fine arguments on this thread:
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