Ukraine's Pro-War Party Is Collapsing In The Polls

business insider ^ | Sep. 5, 2014 | John Helmer

[Mount Athos]

Ukrainian politicians in favour of the military campaign against Donetsk, Lugansk, and Russia, have suffered a dramatic loss of support across the country.

This was reported in Kiev on September 3. In the first countrywide poll taken since the Ukrainian Army took heavy casualties and retreated from the Donbass at the end of August, voters who had supported the pro-war Radical Party, led by Oleg Lyashko, have dropped from 22.2% to 13.1%. Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk’s bloc, Patriots of Ukraine, which includes the police and national guard minister, Arsen Avakov, has collapsed from more than 9% to 3.7%. Yulia Timoshenko’s Fatherland party has fallen below her former proteges to 3.5%. The Svoboda (“Freedom”) party of Oleg Tyagnibok, the candidate of the US Embassy in Kiev and the State Department, and Pravy Sektor (“Right Sector”), the party behind the national guard formations fighting in the east, have lost virtually all their support outside the far western regions of the country; across the Ukraine they are now polling just 2.5% and 1%.

[Pining_4_TX]

The darkest of evil? Hyperbole much? I imagine that ISIS, Boko Haram, the little nut in N. Korea and numerous other bloodthirsty killers are insulted by being passed over.

I don’t understand this Most Evil Guy of the Month syndrome that the news media promote. I thought it was the guy in Iran or the head of Hezbollah? The US actually faces a threat from Muslims. I don’t see Putin attacking the US, unless we do something horrendously stupid (which we very well might). Maybe I don’t subscribe to the right lists. Let me know when there is a new Evil Guy at the top. I like to keep up with current events.

I suppose you believe the government of Ukraine is pure as the driven snow. Many of them are neo-Nazis. In conficts there often are no good guys anywhere to be found, yet the US seems to feel compelled take sides in every single one. Now we are even working with Iran, when not too long ago we were threatening to drop bombs all over it. Curiouser and curioser as Alice said in Wonderland. It would be refreshing to see some wisdom and prudence for a change before we start rattling sabers.

BTW, sanctions never work. They only serve to bolster the leader’s power because the citizens know they are being targeted by foreign powers and it stirs their nationalistic fervor. That’s why all dictators have to invent foreign enemies if they don’t happen to have one on hand.

Do you suggest the US risk nuclear war over Ukraine? What is the vital US interest in Ukraine? If the Ukraine splits into 2 countries, I don’t see that as an earth-shattering event. Putin is not stupid, and I don’t see him marching into other countries. Maybe the Europeans would finally take care of their own problems for once. I think they are quite capable of managing their own affairs. Our so-called allies over there wouldn’t pee on us if we were on fire.

Finally, I am quite sure of the God I serve, thanks. He doesn’t approve of countries manipulating people into war.

[Pining_4_TX]

Don’t believe everything the US government and media tell you.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesleadershipforum/2014/05/19/why-everything-youve-read-about-ukraine-is-wrong/

[tcrlaf]

“Don’t believe everything the US government and media tell you.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesleadershipforum/2014/05/19/why-everything-youve-read-about-ukraine-is-wrong/";

A VERY good explanation of what happened.

[1rudeboy]

What the hell is it with all the people who think that other FReepers want a nuclear war? Are those your Ron Paul Marching orders?

[1rudeboy]

The US thought they would stick a thumb in Putin’s eye by getting Ukraine to break away and join the West.

Let's parse the above: in your mind Ukraine needed to "break away" from Russia? It had already broken away, and when its president tried to realign it with Russia, people took to the streets.

[Pining_4_TX]

What do you think Putin will do if he is attacked? Back down?

[1rudeboy]

How does he respond to white flags? [hint]

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

This post pings everyone in the thread since it will be of common interest, and replies to 3 people. Here goes:

Cowboy Bob burped:

I’d say the real loser in all of this is the US State Department. They created the mess.

This is the old lie told by the Russkies and spread by their agents in the West, even amongst the Right-wing as seen in the Ron Paul Peace foundation which has multiple members who used to work in shady Pro-Soviet groups and have connections with Russians. People like to think that the KGB-FSB only infiltrates the left. No, they go for both sides.

The crisis was having its rumblings some time ago when Yanukovych, the Russkie-puppet, declared the new constitution illegal and returned to the old one. He, with his henchmen in the Ukrainian Rada, then began passing Russian-style dictatorship laws aimed to silence dissent. Yanukovych himself campaigned on the EU agreement, which is not an agreement to join the EU outright, but is the same one Israel and other countries have with them. Regular Ukrainians supported it because they thought it would be a medium through which corruption could be squashed, but whenever you have Russkies involved, they always work to have corruption at 100%.

When Yanukovych did a 180 on the agreement, the Maidan started out, but with only a small number of students. It was the images on TV with Yanukovych's thugs beating up people in the streets that then caused the uprising. And the more Yanukovych beat people, kidnapped people, tortured people, the more people came out. The Maidan then became a much larger revolution, not in favor of the EU-per say, but against corruption and Russian style dictatorship.

The United States only began to support, as you said, after the Maidan had already kicked off, and this, mostly moral, and by handing out cookies to the protestors.

All the claims about the State Department giving 5 billion dollars to the Maidan people to start a revolution, or somehow instigating the events, are all lies. It was Yanukovych and his violence that instigated it, and the United States has not been doing enough to support the Ukrainians to break free from Russian Stalinist dictatorship.

Tcrlaf the Russkie Liar gurgled:

Putin “lost” when Obama/Renaisance was successful at creating chaos in Ukraine, resulting in a violent coup.

A coup would require a toppling of the government and placement of a new one by violent means. Yanukovych, not long after the Russian trained SBU conducted the shootings, fled Ukraine himself, abandoning his office, and was then removed by a majority of the Ukrainian Rada, which was the same one elected in 2012. Even his own party had abandoned him, and Yanukovych himself was declaring that he would resign, only to suddenly disappear (though the Ukrainian SBU says that they think he was actually kidnapped by the Russians). Assuming there was no other funny business going on, this is like Obama fleeing the country to a foreign enemy like Russia because of Tea Partiers marching in Washington. If Yanukovych wanted to remain in power, but felt he was really in danger, he could have fled maybe to Crimea.

Pining_4_Putin, err, I mean, Pining_4_TX wrote:

Finally some sense. Putin is our ally against Islam.

Putin is in fact an ally with the Satanic death cult leaders in Iran and is aiding them with their nuclear program. He is also building his own Islamic Caliphate in Chechnya through his puppet Kadyrov. He uses extremist Muslims, now with a Pro-Russian orientation, to invade countries like Georgia and now Ukraine. Here is one now serving his Russian overlord gloriously:

Alexander Litvinenko, the former FSB agent who defected to the West and was later killed by the Putin regime, alleged that the FSB had trained Al-Qaeda's number two before sending him off to join up with Osama Bin Laden.

I believe him completely.

Pining_4_Putin continues:

The darkest of evil? Hyperbole much? I imagine that ISIS, Boko Haram, the little nut in N. Korea and numerous other bloodthirsty killers are insulted by being passed over.

Russia is indeed a satanic country where innocent people are routinely killed by the regime. The whole "Christian" thing is merely propaganda aimed at Rightists in other countries. The ROC's patriarch is a former KGB agent, which is like having a Gestapo member running a Jewish association. Many of these same "Christians" also identify as National Bolsheviks and Communists. The Essence of Time movement in Russia advocates a blending of Communism, Nationalism and Orthodoxy. This is not Christian in any sense of the word. Here is a photograph from a calender published by the Russian Orthodox Church this year. Each month has a different picture of Stalin:

The ROC also sells videos with a compilation of his speeches.

Here is another photograph. This time from a historical church in former East Prussia, now Kaliningrad Oblast. The local Germans were rebuilding it until the governor there seized the property and handed it over to the ROC. They proceeded to destroy the place and even dug up the bones of its former parishioners:

In this one, a memorial plate is used as a roof for a dog house:

Unfortunately, the original link for this story is dead. Can't find it anymore, only a blog that has these photographs. However, this kind of behavior of the Russians against non-ROC churches is common, and other stories like it are easily found.

Pining_4_Putin vomits:

I suppose you believe the government of Ukraine is pure as the driven snow. Many of them are neo-Nazis.

This poll actually talks about Svoboda and Right Sector having 1 to 2 percent support nationwide. Thus, you would have to tells us that 1 to 2 percent constitutes "many."

As for the content of the poll, I have a feeling it is quite misleading, as all other indications I have seen are that the Ukrainians are united against Russian occupation.

Finally, I am quite sure of the God I serve, thanks.

If you support Russia despite knowing how they really are, then we can be sure that the God you serve is the devil.

[Pining_4_TX]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesleadershipforum/2014/05/19/why-everything-youve-read-about-ukraine-is-wrong/

You really think his goal is to take over Europe?

[Pining_4_TX]

I don’t support any country but the US, and I hate seeing it waste treasure on stupidity that doesn’t concern us.

You don’t beleive the polls because they don’t say what you want them to say.

Very cute to make fun of my Freeper name, but leave my faith out of it. God is our judge, not you, wise guy.

[GeronL]

Mad Vlad Putin: Rebuilding The Evil Empire

Moscow revives Soviet-era May Day Parades Through Red Square
first time since 1991
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/04/30/moscow-may-day/8526297/

“On Monday, he announced that a Stalinist fitness program from the 1930s, called “Ready for Labor and Defense,” will be revived and funded by leftover cash from the Sochi Winter Olympics. “
http://time.com/36572/putin-revives-stalin-era-fitness-program-gto/

Putin revives idea of Russian Exceptionalism as defined by Anti-Americanism
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/putin-revives-russian-exceptionalism/486692.html

Putin compares Lenin’s remains to holy relics
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/world/story/controversy-after-putin-compares-lenin-holy-relics-20121212

Putin: Vote Possible to bring back Stalingrad name

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/06/08/Vladimir-Putin-Volgograd-Could-Be-Stalingrad-Again-With-Votes

Putin’s Greater Novorossiya and dismemberment of Ukraine

http://www.fpri.org/articles/2014/05/putins-greater-novorossiya-dismemberment-ukraine

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

I don’t support any country but the US, and I hate seeing it waste treasure on stupidity that doesn’t concern us.

You just got done saying you want Putin as our ally against Islam, and then spread some of the misconceptions brought to us from Russian propaganda.

If you are just an American patriot, then do not praise and recommend subhuman Bolsheviks for our allies. That harms the United States.

God is our judge, not you, wise guy.

I merely report, God does the judging.

[1rudeboy]

You really think his goal is to take over Europe?

LOL--Despite Vladi's stated intention that he wants to restore the Soviet Empire, I need to take some lefty professor's word that he really doesn't.

[UMCRevMom@aol.com]

EXCELLENT!

[BeadCounter]

Everyone, you can websearch about Russia’s military, if the army alone will be “Muslim majority by 2015”. I don’t know but I know I have read up on this whole matter. I tend to think some stated possible demographic changes are often overstated but still might be worth considering.

[tcrlaf]

You likely don’t know that the guy in your pick, wrapped in plastic, is a Right Sector fighter known as “Doberman”, who described on Social Media just how he was going to torture and kill “Those Russians”, right?

Funny, but he had a completely different disposition when he was caught by the rebels.

[tcrlaf]

“This poll actually talks about Svoboda and Right Sector having 1 to 2 percent support nationwide”

That lie again?

So tell us why they have so many primary Cabinet positions in the coup gov, like head of the National Defense Council, Prosecutor General, Deputy Prime Minister and the heads of the agriculture and environmental departments?

That is a LOT of cabinet seats for just “1-2% support”, as you have repeatedly claimed.

Not to mention how much power the likes of Tyahnybok, Lyashko And the other Right Sector militia leaders are throwing around/threatening.

Why do the Right Sector Militias and the National Guard answer to Pariuby, and NOT to the military chain of command?

[McGruff]

Hey Ukraine, I'm John McCain and I'm here to help you.

[Mount Athos]

Maybe you can stop throwing out wild accusations that other freepers here “Serve the Devil” and that Orthodox Christians “are not Christian in any sense of the word” long enough to reflect on your own irresponsible handling of truth.

1) The Stalin Calendar was never an official publication of the Russian Orthodox Church.

2) The creator and distributor of the calendar was an outside enterprise (Dostoinstvo). It was a commercial order accepted by the printing press.

3) When this fact became known to the Moscow Patriarchate, with the support of the hierarchy of the Lavra, the Typography director and entire accounting section were fired.

4) A new director was appointed, this time from the Lavra, Hierodeacon Nikon (Kotov)

So you are putting out a smear at complete odds with the truth in order to smear the entire Russian Orthodox Church.

You make it sound like the whole church supports the publication but the reality is the opposite, they fire everyone involved for making the mistake of accepting the outside order for the printing press as soon as they found out.

Meanwhile you wildly accuse OTHER people of being in league with the devil.

Shame on you.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

You likely don’t know that the guy in your pick, wrapped in plastic, is a Right Sector fighter known as “Doberman”

You are a liar most likely repeating something you read on a Nazi Russian twitter feed, and here is the proof: Doberman is the nickname, in fact, of the Chechen Muslim. The guy to the right has been called "Doberman," though I am not 100 percent sure.

Here is a video of the Muslim allegedly called 'Doberman' in his Russian Federation uniform. This is the same man who is there with the wrapped up guy:

"Doberman is dead, can unbury him to prove."

Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=27f_1408314613#KGdLvcAWwP22tKiG.99 Here is the video with the Muslim "Doberman":

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3cd_1409102861

Funny, but he had a completely different disposition when he was caught by the rebels.

You're free to provide any evidence that one Doberman tortured and killed another Doberman, and that he really was a Nazi.