Coverage for End of Life Talks Gaining Ground

Agreed. And be as specific as possible. A lot of those do-it-yourself living wills are very generic.

I didn’t say anything about Doctors being forced. My point was that I agree that families should prepare, and if they want to consult their doctor fine.

Our family has prepared and was prepared, and I’ll be darned if I want anyone I didn’t ask forcing me to discuss it or justify it. I didn’t need to discuss it with every Tom, Dick, and Mary that happened to be on duty during my Dad’s hospital stay. And further more, my Dad got well, and lived for another 3 years.

I may not be a doctor, but I read numerous medical books, and made sure I not only understood my Dad’s issues, but also that I could communicate with the proper language, and know the proper language. Any questions I had I asked.

Nor did I suggest that any and all procedures forever and a day should be employed. But the decision is up to the family and no one else. Medical people may know medicine, but they don’t know the person, and what their philosophy of life is, nor what quality of life they want, etc.

And it especially egregious for the Government to be dictating it, and yet they are. They are permeating every aspect of our lives, including our medical care. Our freedoms are being stripped away, and stripped away.

Do you even bother to read what I write???? I did not say you said doctors would be forced. I have no idea where you even get that.

The government is dictating nothing. Goodness what a jump you make. In order for a doctor to be reimbursed for their time spent with a patient either the patient needs to pay out of pocket OR have a second party pay (insurance, Ocare, medicare, medicaid....essentially insurance). ALL forms of insurance (regardless of origination) have CODES for time the doctor has spent with the patient.

What about providing CODING for reimbursement do you not understand????

Doctors are not forced to do this. It is part of their job to discuss with the family the various possibilities that one is facing. Each family needs the medical information as well as their emotional input.

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This is what you wrote in post 25. The first sentence seems to indicate that you interpreted my post to indicate that Doctors were being forced to do this. So yes, I did read what you wrote. I also felt that my sentence on that could have been clearer, and attempted to explain.

As to your rant about codes, please review my posts, I never said a word about codes, and I do understand quite a lot about codes and insurance billing. Perhaps you are thinking of browniexyz, or someone else who you were discussing codes with.

Now, I'm a pretty old person, so I happen to remember a time when the government was a heck of a lot less intrusive than it is today. I tend to get a little nostalgic for the freedoms we've lost.

If you think we have more freedom today than we did in the past, that's ok with me. Think what you will, but every now and then, I just get darned frustrated about it.

I am so glad that you don't share those frustrations-it's obvious that you are already full to the brim from your responses on this thread alone-any more might jack up your blood pressure to stroke levels.

No need to continue this discussion, as I was only trying to clarify my statement, not pick a fight. Settle down now, and have a good night. God Bless.

You seem to think that because I make the point that coding is about payment to your doctor... unless you are paying out of pocket somehow means I like government medicine.

I have referred to government medicine as socialized medicine.

How you draw the conclusion that I ever said anything about our state of freedom (or lack thereof)is completely out of left field. You totally ignore the idea that insurers (no matter the source) use codes for payment schedules. You instead talk about nostalgia and government intrusion.

You aren’t any (or much) older than I am so cut it out. You then run away without ever dealing with the simple reality that the true concern people should have is about the boards that decide what services you will be allowed.

I don’t know if you intentionally chose to misunderstand my comments or you just are that confused. Logic and coherence were not your strong suit here

“I don’t know if you intentionally chose to misunderstand my comments or you just are that confused. Logic and coherence were not your strong suit here”

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Sounds like projection to me. I had one simple point to make.

I agree that planning is necessary, but I don’t think every one needs to consult their Doctor, and who a family consults and what decisions they make, are entirely their affair - not the government’s or anyone elses.

So I tried to clarify only to get a tirade. Why continue the conversation, when you just sling mud, bring in other issues that have nothing to do with anything I was trying to say. You are the one that needs to cut it out.

In my last post, I just tried to gracefully end the conversation since you seem to be intent on finding something wrong with everything I say. Yet here you are again.

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“ You seem to think that because I make the point that coding is about payment to your doctor... unless you are paying out of pocket somehow means I like government medicine.”

Wrong - I never thought it, could care less whether you do or don’t, and never accused you of it either.
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“How you draw the conclusion that I ever said anything about our state of freedom (or lack thereof)is completely out of left field. You totally ignore the idea that insurers (no matter the source) use codes for payment schedules. You instead talk about nostalgia and government intrusion.”

No I never drew such a conclusion about your thinking - I was just stating my frustration. I already told you that I know insurers use codes for payment schedules. It’s irrelevant to what I initially posted and the point I wanted to make.
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“You then run away without ever dealing with the simple reality that the true concern people should have is about the boards that decide what services you will be allowed.”

It just so happens that I do agree about the boards deciding what suervices should be allowed. I hate them, and consider them to be an infringement of our rights, and the so called efficiency panel established during porkulus I consider to be an egregious government intrusion.

I only replied to your comment to agree that people need to do some planning, but that not every one needs to consult their doctor for that. Nor do they have to have an End of Life discussiob any other person they don’t want to discuss it with outside the family. In other words, it’s up to the family.

Why you would jump all over the place about many of the other issues and problems of the health care system and keep trying to provoke an argument and cast aspersions about me or my logic makes no sense to me.

I am so sorry that I ever saw your post. Don’t go away mad, just go away.

I know we agree on some points, Nifster, but it is my belief that if you are over 65, you should have the option to opt out of Medicare and pay out of pocket if you can and wish. But I do NOT agree with you that doctors should have access to a government code that gives them government money for the discussion they have with you concerning the end of one’s life. That is government-sponsored killing. The GOOD doctors have these discussions with patients regardless of “whether there is a code for that.” If practicing medicine is IMPOSSIBLE without some silly government code, we are in a world of hurt.

“But I do NOT agree with you that doctors should have access to a government code that gives them government money for the discussion they have with you concerning the end of one’s life.”

Then pay for the doctor’s time out of your own pocket. I hate medicare because it under pays for what docs do and it limits what patients can have in the way of treatment.

“That is government-sponsored killing.” Not even close.....Don’t be ridiculously over dramatic. Government sponsored killing looks like gas vans and concentration camps and starving populations. Talking with someone about the end of life (which comes to us all) and giving information hardly constitutes KILLING.

Now the panels that decide what care you may and may not have.....that is government sponsored killing

So, not only do they want us to kill Granny, now they are going to pay us to do it.

We are talking circles around each other, Nifster, though I believe we are in complete agreement. You just don’t see the big picture that docs who have access to a code for talking about end of life rather than discussing expensive treatments that might save your life but cost the government (Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, no difference) will have “guidelines” they must follow to deny you the expensive care but have the “talk.”