Russia dismisses accusations Ukrainian separatists shot down Flight MH17 [it's not their fault]

France 24/AFP ^ | 7-21-2014 | AFP

[tcrlaf]

Russia’s Defence Ministry dismissed accusations on Monday that pro-Russia separatists in Ukraine’s east were at fault for shooting down a Malaysia Airlines jet last week, alleging instead that Ukrainian warplanes had been flying close to the plane.

The ministry also denied accusations that Russia had supplied the separatists with SA-11 Buk anti-aircraft missile systems – which are known as “Gadfly” in NATO – or “any other weapons.”

“Russian air space control systems detected a Ukrainian Air Force plane, presumably an SU-25 (fighter jet), scrambling in the direction of the Malaysian Boeing,” Lieutenant-General Igor Makushev of Russia’s Air Forces told a news briefing. “The distance of the SU-25 plane from the Boeing was from 3 to 5 kilometres (2 to 3 miles).”

The ministry’s comments came as the Netherlands announced that prosecutors had opened an investigation into the crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, which claimed the lives of all 298 people on board, 193 of whom were Dutch citizens

[caww]

.....”because they have a much more realistic goal in mind: a global economy in which they, not New York, are the center”.....

Yes indeed. Obama carries little more than a rustle in the woods from time to time.....however the US Citizen, for the most part, is kept pretty much in the dark on what’s happening in the world. All you have to do is view any MSM news site and it’s full of entertainment, any news is created for an audience intended to ‘keep in the dark’....and frankly most are content being so.

Sometimes even I think I’d rather not be seeing what’s going on...but then I’d prefer to be informed as much as that is possible. But you do ‘have to think’ about the information that is revealed and not just accept it at face value.....in time the picture does come into view. Note I said time...something which it does take to weed out the nonsense.

No surprise Obama was “chosen” to take the heat and give the orders, so to speak. I recall with a sickening feel in my gut, when Michelle Obama said her husband would “take the American people, ( down this path) even if they had to do so kicking and screaming”. Those two knew what they were getting into long before they got there, and who was directing the show.

Ukraine’s always been a flash point regarding Russia’s influence so the EU and US knew perfectly well the storm that would unleash. Controlling it was another matter....always so much death when nations push their agenda. Every time it costs so many lives, and from people whose hearts and minds generally believe what they’re doing is for their ultimate good. ...but the politicians and leaders rarely take a hit nor their families.

I’ve also been watching the average business ‘climate’, now fast being positioned, also the banks and other sources of revenues moving closer together and further from our shores.
To hear some of these eager businessmen you’d think paradise is now in the East..and they are definitely going for it.

Those spouting “Putinistas” are really just angry old men who miss what we once were, so do I for that matter. But I don’t remain there for long....things have more than changed...they are operating at breakneck speed..and that is on purpose ....so better to retain focus on today.....(and that IS sufficient)...and an eye on the world.

[jjsheridan5]

Those spouting “Putinistas” are really just angry old men who miss what we once were, so do I for that matter. But I don’t remain there for long....things have more than changed...they are operating at breakneck speed..and that is on purpose ....so better to retain focus on today.....(and that IS sufficient)...and an eye on the world.

I wish that I could disagree, but I cannot. The flies permeating this board are, at the end of the day, just annoyances. But there is no question that the world is changing rapidly, and not in favor of those of us who remember something better, and know that what is occurring was not inevitable. But I remember, as I suspect you do, that history takes a longer view, and that those who live in "interesting times" are not doomed, but rather forced to examine what it is really important, and given an opportunity to take a stand, no matter how seemingly inconsequential.

This rush to judgement deeply sickens me. But that is not the important thing. We have forgotten how dangerous the world can be. We have forgotten how bad things can get. The cavalier attitude of the holier-than-thou crowd, who refuse to accept that the world does not abide by our wishes, is not comical -- it is a reflection of the ignorance upon which our slide is dependent. And as any student of history should be able to tell you, it is also a necessary precursor to the interesting parts.

You are right, unfortunately. We tried to affect a part of the world that reacts unpredictably to influence, and we are now in the position of a congental dissembler trying to spin another thread. We set this in motion, and are incapable of accepting the consequences. But the rest of the world sees, and will not forever allow us our indulgences. They are moving beyond us.

Your efforts are appreciated (and I feel bad not included several others, including the recently suspended one).

[elhombrelibre]

Are you in love with Putin? Were a fan of his when he was in the KGB?

[jjsheridan5]

Are you in love with Putin? Were a fan of his when he was in the KGB?

Responding to you, would be like trying to persuade a cockroach that there are greener pastures elsewhere. If you have a point to make, make it. If you have a coherent thought, share it. But otherwise, you are simply not worth the time.

[elhombrelibre]

Are you in love with Putin? You do know the answer, don’t you?

[jjsheridan5]

Are you in love with Putin? You do know the answer, don’t you?

If you have a point to make, make it. If you are capable of rational thought, by all means display it. If you are mentally handicapped, I applaud your ability to type. Otherwise, don't you have a mattress in dire need of cleaning?

[elhombrelibre]

Okay, so you are in love with Putin. This explains why you cannot accept that he’s wicked. This explains why his abusing the neighbors of Russia so as to recreate the Russian/Soviet Empire is something you’re okay with. It’s just as I thought. You cannot denounce his actions because you’ve fallen in love with him. Do you have posters of him without his shirt on?

[jjsheridan5]

Okay, so you are in love with Putin. This explains why you cannot accept that he’s wicked. This explains why his abusing the neighbors of Russia so as to recreate the Russian/Soviet Empire is something you’re okay with. It’s just as I thought. You cannot denounce his actions because you’ve fallen in love with him. Do you have posters of him without his shirt on?

You do realize, that your postings reflect a classic case of repressed homosexual tendencies. Your obsession with Putin, and especially the frequency with which you cast accusations of desire amongst others, and which clouds out whatever flicker of intelligence you keep so deeply buried, leaves you, I suppose, feeling confused. Feel confused no more -- your obsession with this man is natural, at least for the 2% that can now count you among their number. But it does not negate the fact that our rush to judgement over this tragedy will have negative consequences for many years to come.

You can continue to act as though you were a sentinel against the evil of Putin, if that is what you wish to believe you are. But you may, at some point, wish to take the blinders off and realize that you are not playing the hero defending the West from the evils of the East, but rather you are merely a minor participant in perpetuating that which you claim to oppose.

[elhombrelibre]

And you’re projecting your sentiments onto me! You cannot denounce Putin for what he does. I can denounce Obama and Putin because of what they do, their policies, and their goals. But you are in love with Putin. You defend him and fear for him. It’s not okay, you know. It’s a sin.

[jjsheridan5]

If you have a point to make, make it.

[elhombrelibre]

The main point is your love for Putin blinds you from what he does. You’re like one of the lads the various Caesars had. His cruelty escapes you. You admire him for it. You don’t mind that he’s reestablishing the Soviet empire because in your eyes he can do no wrong. You’ve a romantic drive to defend him from criticism.

[Uncle Chip]

<>Yes, that is precisely what I am saying. You are talking about a site that is in the middle of a war zone.<>

So I guess you missed this statement from the Malaysians:

Separatists Have ‘Full Control’ Over MH 17 Crash Site, Says Malaysian Minister

The Malaysian government expressed concern today that the crash site of Malaysia Airlines flight MH 17 is “now under the full control of separatist groups.”

A Malaysian team of 133 officials and experts arrived in Kiev on Saturday morning to investigate the MH 17 crash site but they have been unable to get to the area to recover victims’ remains and retrieve the aircraft’s black boxes, the Malaysian government said in a statement released today.

According to the statement, armed rebels have prevented the Malaysian recovery and investigation team from getting to the wreckage of MH 17.

The Ukrainian government says it is unable to guarantee the safety of international investigators in and around the site.

“Malaysia is very concerned that the sanctity of the crash site has been severely compromised,” the statement read.

http://news.yahoo.com/separatists-full-control-over-mh-17-crash-says-233800338—abc-news-topstories.html

No wonder you guys post in the middle of the night — you’re not ready for prime time.

[caww]

Chip....you ‘NEED’ to get current....’OSCE’ Reports and assessments as well as area site Press releases ......Here!..These are officials on the ground and whose job is to report....along with those orchestrating with all parties:

KYIV, 22 July 2014 - “The Trilateral Contact Group”, consisting of senior representatives of Ukraine, the Russian Federation and the OSCE Chairperson-in Office, (President Kuchma, Ambassador Zurabov, Ambassador Tagliavini respectively), met on 22 July 2014 and held another round of video consultations with representatives of separatists operating in eastern Ukraine.

http://www.osce.org/ho152312me/

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/121542

[caww]

Chip....you ‘NEED’ to get current....’OSCE’ Reports and assessments as well as area site Press releases ......Here!..These are officials on the ground and whose job is to report....along with those orchestrating with all parties:

KYIV, 22 July 2014 - “The Trilateral Contact Group”, consisting of senior representatives of Ukraine, the Russian Federation and the OSCE Chairperson-in Office, (President Kuchma, Ambassador Zurabov, Ambassador Tagliavini respectively), met on 22 July 2014 and held another round of video consultations with representatives of separatists operating in eastern Ukraine.

http://www.osce.org/ho152312me/

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/121542

[caww]

Chip....you ‘NEED’ to get current....’OSCE’ Reports and assessments as well as area site Press releases ......Here!..These are officials on the ground and whose job is to report....along with those orchestrating with all parties:

KYIV, 22 July 2014 - “The Trilateral Contact Group”, consisting of senior representatives of Ukraine, the Russian Federation and the OSCE Chairperson-in Office, (President Kuchma, Ambassador Zurabov, Ambassador Tagliavini respectively), met on 22 July 2014 and held another round of video consultations with representatives of separatists operating in eastern Ukraine.

http://www.osce.org/ho152312me/

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/121542

[caww]

Quite carrying Obama’s water....CBS is Obamas network as is Huffuington.....

[Uncle Chip]

Is it also Tony Abbott’s network???

[Uncle Chip]

you ‘NEED’ to get current.

Is that code for "Let's forget about the past and let yesterday's evidence tampering of the missile strike be forgotten".

[caww]

....”The cavalier attitude of the holier-than-thou crowd, who refuse to accept that the world does not abide by our wishes, is not comical — it is a reflection of the ignorance upon which our slide is dependent.... And as any student of history should be able to tell you, it is also a necessary precursor to the interesting parts”.

...” We tried to affect a part of ‘the world that reacts unpredictably to influence’, and we are now in the position of a congental dissembler trying to spin another thread. We set this in motion, and are incapable of accepting the consequences...... But ‘the rest of the world sees’, and will not forever allow us our indulgences”.......

We have affected parts of the world, but not without a cost to the very people we're attempting to influence and they often pay the ultimate costs without a choice in the matter...... Thinking now of the Ukrainians who have seen war and conflict time and again throughout the life they've lived.... The price is too great for the oldsters in East Ukraine.. whose minds race back to the very same situations they have seen before, and the tears fall hard once again...... This while they watch the destruction of their homes and communities.....only this time they wanted to be ‘free’ of ANY influence and go it alone.....reminding me of how we arrived at our individual states and control of our governance within. That is the difference in Eastern Ukraine....the choice to NOT go with Russia nor be under the heavy hand of Kiev. It's been different this time around for those in the East....and an honorable endeavor IMO. I will always support those who desire self-rule, regardless of the culture or the peoples within.

However in every case where communities rise.. there are the outside nation/leaders, and those within, who stand to loose their place of power and dominion.....and they will do far ‘more’ than oppose to protect their investments after years of structuring the systems they operate within. If the corrupt and evil ‘systems’ they're under are not destroyed and replaced, then the same musical chairs continues from one generation to the next.... Ukraine is a prime example....Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya as well....the basic ‘cultures’ cannot be changed, especially when there are more than one within the nation.

But then it's all really not about what the citizens want or desire, as we see play out in all the conflicts, including our own here in the states. Those at the top of the food chain have already anticipated our response long before they implement their ‘next’ move to “change” this nation. Thus we now see an invasion of undesirables coming through our borders which will further create the division in this nation......”divide and conquer comes to mind”.

IMO what's happening now here in the USA...today and the tomorrows to come will not be stopped with an election...slowed down perhaps....because that's the ‘most’ the current system as it operates can do....but nothing is going to put the breaks on..... Congress has the power but not the will, nor the time it would take. It's up to the people and I do see the potential for a revolution right here.....and that with those who are ready and prepared to oppose it...and they surely will.

(Haven't discovered who now's been suspended, but one wonders who's making those decisions with the boss out of town.)

[caww]

Ok Chip...you’ve decided to ignore those trying to help you be current so you don’t keep making a fool of yourself. Had you checked the links and read what’s going on you would know the status as it really is regarding the evidence and the wreckage area rather than continue to base your assumptions on News Media hype...but they do keep you entertained and in the hype they seek to engage you with.....others choose to get the facts before during and after.