Russia dismisses accusations Ukrainian separatists shot down Flight MH17 [it's not their fault]

France 24/AFP ^ | 7-21-2014 | AFP

[tcrlaf]

Russia’s Defence Ministry dismissed accusations on Monday that pro-Russia separatists in Ukraine’s east were at fault for shooting down a Malaysia Airlines jet last week, alleging instead that Ukrainian warplanes had been flying close to the plane.

The ministry also denied accusations that Russia had supplied the separatists with SA-11 Buk anti-aircraft missile systems – which are known as “Gadfly” in NATO – or “any other weapons.”

“Russian air space control systems detected a Ukrainian Air Force plane, presumably an SU-25 (fighter jet), scrambling in the direction of the Malaysian Boeing,” Lieutenant-General Igor Makushev of Russia’s Air Forces told a news briefing. “The distance of the SU-25 plane from the Boeing was from 3 to 5 kilometres (2 to 3 miles).”

The ministry’s comments came as the Netherlands announced that prosecutors had opened an investigation into the crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, which claimed the lives of all 298 people on board, 193 of whom were Dutch citizens

[lodi90]

This isn’t a lawful war. Russia is free to declare war on Ukraine anytime they want. What we have is transnational unlawful warfare by Russia on Ukraine. War crimes.

Terrorists don’t get do overs. Troops under Russian flag and command very deliberately fired a missile that killed 300 people. Then a Russian GRU Colonel took credit for it. The guilt lies with them and them alone.

[elhombrelibre]

Don’t worry. He’ll have more excuses, as a fulltime Putinista apologist for Putin, he does all he can with his shallow arguments.

[caww]

Nato cannot claim outright what it’s doing....because Ukraine is not a Nato member,...it’s bypassing where it can and hidden. Just like them saying their jets over Ukraine are simply for reconissaance.

“Most of the weapons and equipment of Ukraine is faulty and unusable, so NATO (which is the US) decided to transfer all available old weapons from Eastern European countries”, – wrote the Deputy Prime Minister in charge of the military-industrial complex.

....added that “we are talking about Soviet time weapons production.” .....These “losses” for the Eastern European countries Washington will compensate with contracts for new weapon systems, said Rogozin. “U.S. military industrial complex is happy,” – he said.”

https://tigr.net/2444/2014/07/04/nato-supplies-weapons-to-war-in-ukraine/

[tcrlaf]

“You’re kidding me. You’re saying you truly believe that the US has given the Ukraine tanks and lethal aid.”

Define “Lethal Aid”...
Are we giving them tanks? NO....
Are we giving them money that is being used to buy hardware on the world markets, that will be used to kill rebels? YES....

Are we giving them satellite support that they are using to kill Rebels? It would be hard to believe that we aren’t.

Are we giving the support to help kill rebels in the field? YES... The many “Training Advisors”, and the many youtube videos of US MRE’s at burned-out Kiev checkpoints show that.

The Obama administration, once again, chose a side in a CIVIL WAR. Why does it surprise anybody that the Russians are doing the same?

[jjsheridan5]

And, don't forget, the world's reaction to this event will be remembered for generations, in both Russia and China, long after we have moved on to the next episode of American Idol. The contempt of the usual crowd of hyperactive adolescents, and catty schoolgirls (judging solely by their posts), is returned ten-fold by the people of what is rapidly becoming the "other side" in an east-west divide.

This does not raise our standing in the world, but rather debases it. We (collectively, not people like you) are politicizing a true tragedy, one of the most despicable acts imaginable, and are doing so in a way which will echo through the generations. All because ... and here is where I don't understand. From the left, it is obvious. Putin embarrassed and exposed Obama. But for conservatives, it is a little trickier. But I think, at its root, is the psychological impact of witnessing a country voluntarily attempting to morph into a hybrid of a second-rate European state, and a banana republic. The "emotionalism" that you, unfortunately, bear the brunt of, is not coming from this tragedy, but rather from a yearning for the simpler days of the Cold War, for a time when we were unambiguously the good guys, and for a time where we strove to be that city on a hill.

We really don't know what happened to that flight, at least not yet (laughably flimsy evidence aside). But what we can know, at least based on the reaction on this site, the "conservative" leadership, and the rest of the west's reaction, is that we are in no position to reverse the decay in our own backyard, at a time when we are creating and immersing ourselves in a long-term entanglement against people who have long memories.

[BlueDragon]

So they killed rebels with MRE's?

That famous Army chow, it get's 'em every time.

[tcrlaf]

“So they killed rebels with MRE’s?
That famous Army chow, it get’s ‘em every time.”

Luckily, it wasn’t the Chili Mac. That can be more hazardous to the user than to the enemy.

[elhombrelibre]

Well, you’re Putin’s defender. No matter what he does you’re cool with it. Were you a big fan of the KGB when it existed? Did you defend communism too?

[elhombrelibre]

You post speculations and then say you know what’s been given. Well, you don’t know.

[tcrlaf]

“Well, you’re Putin’s defender. No matter what he does you’re cool with it.”

Stop lying....
You are prodding for a reaction, but you are just making a fool of yourself.

[caww]

Yes....we are financing them and Nato/European countries are assisting with Equipment as well. Which Nato is the US... My point is people seem to think that only Russia is sending armaments into Ukraine. Neither the US nor RUssia wants to admit....but both are in Ukraine. Can't believe the public thinks otherwise. This war would not have lasted this long without outside help from other nations. Impossible.

Not only that but Ukraine had already purchased Russian equipment from Russia before this ordeal. So many times now people posting “Russian” tanks etc. are falsely saying they are Russia's Army when in fact they are Russian Tanks Kiev has had and continues to use in this war.

Further, to think that any of us know what's going on there defies sanity...we don't...we can only speculate with the information that's handed to us. But one thing is for certain.....the US has been equally, if not more involved, in this Ukraine War and Ukraines politics long before the Maidan Protests...and we had no business sticking our noses in what the EU was doing in Ukraine....

[caww]

...Army chow”...

LOL....remember when in Iraq they dropped food for the kids of peanut butter etc. and nobody could eat the stuff! LOL.

The MRI”S Obama sent I understand are the outdated ones. Pretty low handed if true.

[Uncle Chip]

We really don't know what happened to that flight...

Really!!! Who is "We"??

Are you also going to tell us that "we" don't know who was in control of the shootdown site, tampering with the evidence, and removing things from the scene???

[caww]

Good post and well written....

So much that’s being stated is simply chatter on the world stage...what gives us all a heads up is when the level of that chatter reaches a roar........Blaming Russia was begun by Obama as he wants global impact on Ukraine, Keiv being his waterboy.

There are interested parties who would love nothing more than war with Russia, many of the thuggery type still thinking the world operates as the cold war days.

I don’t put anything past the Oligarchs, who control their personal armies, in the East. Then you have the militias from outside who travel to where the pay is, no matter what side they take, they have no loyalty, it’s a job.

So the East has become a hell-hole and anyone who didn’t see that coming had their head in the sand.

I’m not so sure the US will recover from where we are sitting now...and Obamas not finished. Russia and China are moving quickly on the world stage..because they can. We aren’t the city on the hill as before, rather everythings now moved to the Eastern Hemisphere...whats left here is simply finishing up....the illegals flooding in may just do the trick IMO...and that didn’t just start with the throngs recently being ushered in.

Heck I just learned even the Silcon Valley folks want their own state! Talk about a divided nation....

[caww]

Here educate yourself:

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2014/07/video-of-rebel-buk-launchers-headed.html

[Uncle Chip]

Here — this one might work better:

Malaysia Airlines MH17: Is This The BUK Missile Launcher Which Brought Down The Jet? (VIDEO)

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/21/malaysia-airlines-mh17-buk-missile-launcher-video_n_5604963.html?ir=Canada

[Ivan Mazepa]

So far, the Russians came up with:

1) Ukrainians were aiming for the Putin plane (which was somewhere over Belarus/Poland at the time)

2) A Spaniard, Carlos, working in the Ukrainian dispatch, had reported that Ukrainian jets were around the MH17 (no proof, no nothing)

[caww]

You take a quote from the heavily Progressive/Liberal website Huffington Post and expect that I’ll even consider or even go there????

Come on you surely don’t mean it!

[KOZ.]

Don’t forget:

3) It’s the pilots fault the Russian’s shot it down

4) Russia attacking and taking over a sovereign nation is a civil war.

[caww]

Listen to Russia's Official statements today (video on youtube) which has now been sent to US Gov. and other nation leaders.....from their investigation thus far.... satellite images etc. raising some interesting questions.