Posted on 07/19/2014 8:48:25 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
Edited on 07/19/2014 8:59:24 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
One common theory: Ukraine was trying to shoot down Vladimir Putin's plane
In televised comments this morning, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that responsibility for the tragic downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 on Thursday lay with “the government of the territory on which it happened.” He stopped short of directly blaming the Ukrainian military for launching the missile – but Russia’s many state-controlled media outlets have been only too happy to do that for him. On Friday morning, as the world tried to make sense of the crash in separatist-controlled Ukraine, the Russian spin machine was already doing damage control. Gruesome images of the wreckage were splashed across this morning’s papers under headlines blaming Kiev for the attack.
“The leadership of Novorossiya considers the destruction of the liner a planned provocation by Kiev,” wrote daily Izvestia, in its lead news story, employing the resurrected term used frequently in Russian media to describe the region of Eastern Ukraine stretching from Odessa to Donbass.
The theory that seems to be making the most traction throughout Kremlin-backed media is that the Ukrainian military shot down the passenger jet, either as part of a sinister plan to frame the separatists and galvanize the West against Russia, or alternately, after mistaking the Malaysian jet for a plane transporting Putin, who was on his way back to Moscow from Brazil. Citing the Interfax news agency, Kremlin-funded network RT described the similarity of the flight paths of MH17 and the presidential plane above a split-screen graphic intended to show the visual similarities between the two aircraft. Many Russians have taken to Twitter and Facebook both to voice their sympathy for the victims and often, to echo the theory that it’s all Ukraine’s fault.
Same as if Putin puts a gun in some kook’s hands, kook kills someone, then Putin says “well I didn’t kill anyone”
Legally, the “puppetmaster” is as liable as the “puppet”
Putin’s fingerprints are all over this one ... if he’s so innocent, why was the launcher quickly withdrawn to Russia in the middle of the night??
Open your eyes dude
You have a point regarding Iran, but we’re not any better there, refusing to take action and tying Israel’s hands. So, yes, he could be better.
As far as the other despots go, I don’t see much different in our hemisphere than when Bush was president...same dictators...no effort to get rid of them.
The airliner - that system has been deployed since 1979. Ukraine DEFINITELY had it when the Soviet Union broke up. It’s VERY POSSIBLE that the rebels (who are former soldiers) had their own when they broke away. I’m just not jumping to conclusions yet on this one.
By the way, the Middle East would be a MUCH BETTER place right now for Christians, if Putin’s, rather than Hillary’s, policies had been followed.
“Putin’s fingerprints are all over this one ... if he’s so innocent, why was the launcher quickly withdrawn to Russia in the middle of the night??”
How the hell do you know it was withdrawn to Russia? You saw a YouTube video of a launcher on the highway?
Jeeze, I guess it doesn’t take much to fool conservatives - our stupid party was trying to slam Amnesty down our throats by telling us it was our ONLY HOPE to be viable in the future...and we nearly bought it.
I was sorta believing it was Russias fault until I saw Juan McCain and Peter the boy who cried Wolf blathering on and on about what a horrible human being Putin is. Those two guys are the last guys on the planet you ever want to believe about anything! Sorry but the fact still remains that Russia has nothing to gain and everything to lose for taking down a civilian airliner. Until somebody can come with a clear motive for why Putin would blast a civilian airliner out if the sky, I am going to ignore all the talking heads for now. BTW, Putin just signed an agreement with 3 other countries the other day to start a new reserve currency. That is usually grounds for either politcal or physical assassination.
“Well we know you did, on the thread posted by free_life 1/2 hour ago, which you already jumped on .... forgotten already?”
I saw it, that’s why I commented. A person could post a picture of a truck on some highway and say it’s full of explosives and will blow up a Tea Party event...doesn’t mean there’s an ounce of truth to it.
Well Israel, who has the most to lose here, begs to differ. The US is at least making some attempts to slow or stop Iran's nuclear development effort, Russia is actively supporting it. Big difference. Israel may not think the US is doing near enough, but they certainly prefer our position over the Putin one since he is actively helping them.
As far as the other despots go, I don’t see much different in our hemisphere than when Bush was president...same dictators...no effort to get rid of them.
Despots come and go, yes. There is a huge difference between doing too little and actively supporting them. The US does too little these days for sure, Russia actively assists them. It is hard for me to believe you can't see the difference.
The airliner - that system has been deployed since 1979. Ukraine DEFINITELY had it when the Soviet Union broke up. It’s VERY POSSIBLE that the rebels (who are former soldiers) had their own when they broke away. I’m just not jumping to conclusions yet on this one.
Are you spending your time reading RT or something? Come on man, denying that Russian supported thugs (ie, separatists), at a very minimum, shot this civilian airliner down is to be wearing multiple sets of blinders. It isn't hard to see where this shot came from and it was pretty obviously terrorist controlled territory. These are Russia's allies, whom they support with heavy weapons and training. The man ultimately responsible is Putin as he is determined to continue destabilizing a country that wants to look to the West and get OUT of Russia's orbit (and before you shout "fascists!", Right Sector only got 2% of the vote in Ukraine - they are not a significant bloc). Or are you one of these people that believed Putin when he said his forces weren't in Crimea? Seriously now, no one believed that and the end result proved he was lying all along.
By the way, the Middle East would be a MUCH BETTER place right now for Christians, if Putin’s, rather than Hillary’s, policies had been followed.
Yes, because a nuclear Iran - and the Islamic arms race that would follow - would be great for Christians. Putin is not some defender of Christianity in the Middle East, despite what he and his propaganda organs may claim from time to time. Putin supports whoever will buy weapons from him and support Russian foreign policy (which is mostly about opposing the US/West and creating a "multipolar" world). That is why they will support both a religious fanatic state like Iran AND a more secular run government like Assad's (not to mention Russia's only foreign navy base is in Syria).
“this follows Putin’s seizing the Crimea from the Ukraine”
This sounds pretty good if you WILLINGLY forget that a violent coup happened in Kiev immediately before that. One thing leads to another.
” don’t get you Putinista’s? Is it the gay thing? Is that it”
What is with the insults? Can’t defend your position without Jr. High-level name calling? Since when was that allowed on FR?
Most of us understand that Putin is a cold, calculating SOB. A Cold, Calculating SOB who has been enabled by Obama’s incompetence and weakness. Both Palin and Romney tried to warn people like you what was out there, but you chose Obama, instead.
That doesn’t mean you get to forget the facts of this situation, or get to throw around childish insults.
“Same as if Putin puts a gun in some kook’s hands, kook kills someone, then Putin says “well I didn’t kill anyone””
You mean like Obama and ISIS?
You mean like Obama and Fast&Furious?
Welcome to International Geopolitics...
“Come on man, denying that Russian supported thugs (ie, separatists), at a very minimum, shot this civilian airliner down is to be wearing multiple sets of blinders.”
I NEVER said who did or didn’t shoot down the plane. I only noted that, despite what we’re being spoon-fed, these weapons have been in Ukraine for DECADES and I really doubt that we know exactly who has which units.
Again, unless Putin, or the Russian military command, ordered the plane to be shot down, then Putin did not do it - no more than Germany attacked Pearl Harbor, since they were allies with Japan at the time.
But you would have us to believe that he had nothing to do with Ukraine until the Maidan protests began.
Few people are really suggesting they knowingly shot down the civilian airliner. What almost certainly happened is Russian supported separatists or Russia supported separatists with direct Russian operational support shot down the plane by mistake. Several Ukrainian planes including transports had been shot down by Russian supported forces within just days of this, it is almost certain they thought they were shooting down another Ukrainian military transport plane and simply used terrible targeting judgment.
BTW, Putin just signed an agreement with 3 other countries the other day to start a new reserve currency. That is usually grounds for either politcal or physical assassination.
This is crazy conspiracy stuff. There is no threat to the US or West because Russia is attempting to create some new reserve currency. No one cares and despite endless claims, the US dollar will continue being the worlds reserve currency. It sounds like you may be a regular on InfoWars, RT or believing too much of what you read on ZeroHedge (which while interesting tends to be the ultimate bear doom and gloomer financial page out there).
I think I’ll check out now. My goal was to get people to start questioning authority, and I’ve succeeded.
You mean like Obama and Fast&Furious?
Was it wrong, or not?
And how do the either of the two above make anything else less wrong?
I fired-off a check to Easter Seals on your behalf, so that's something.
Bovine excrement....
Yet again, you just make things up. Of course Russia is/was/always will be involved in Ukraine. They share a thousand mile border.
To ignore everything that happened up to and during the coup, just because it might make your cause look bad, isn’t only disingenuous, it is outright lying....
This civil war is BECAUSE of that coup. What did you think was going to happen? The roses and happy riches that the Eurmaidan propaganda portrayed?
What is with the insults? Can’t defend your position without Jr. High-level name calling? Since when was that allowed on FR?
What insult? That is the real reason why some people use to justify supporting Putin. Because Putin opposes the homosexual agenda he has won some limited support in traditional/social conservative quarters. My point was simply because he gets one thing right, doesn't make him worthy of support. Remember that Iran and most Islamic countries also actively oppose the homosexual agenda, that does not make them countries we should support either.
Tweet from BBC Foreign Correspondent Fergal Keene:
Militiaman says 2 me, your only here because foreigners are dead. Where were u when our kids were being killed?
Making me wonder why you do it.
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