Posted on 05/02/2014 8:28:00 PM PDT by Mariner
Slavyansk, Ukraine (CNN) -- Deadly street fighting, helicopters shot down and civilians being used as human shields.
That was the picture that emerged Friday in southern Ukraine as violence escalated amid reports that dozens of people were killed in a fire and still more were shot dead or wounded in street fighting, raising the question of whether the country can stave off a possible civil war.
The violence -- pitting pro-Russian separatists against Ukrainian forces and those who support the government in Kiev -- prompted an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council, with Russia demanding an end to what it called Ukrainian aggression and Western powers accusing Moscow of funding the violence.
Russia and the West have squared off diplomatically over the fate of Ukraine, after Moscow annexed Crimea in March following the ouster of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych. He was pushed from office after months of protests by people upset that he had turned away from Europe in favor of Russia.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
The only reason Russia is willing to “expend resources” is for their pipelines and access to the coast.
I get that...but they aren’t the “good guys” in all of this.
Yes, I agree they were some corrupt sombitches.
Dirty, rotten sombitches.
But somehow they were able to gain a majority in an election observed as "fair" by the UN>
That's NOT to say I would respect a UN adjudication of an American election. The UN is as corrupt as it gets...well, except for maybe the Obama administration.
i’m for anything that will destroy the EU!!
“Doll, this is Eastern Europe we’re talking about. When this kind of thing erupts, one side wins and the other loses.”
Pardon the expression, but baloney. The Ukrainians did all sorts of guerilla warfare against the Russian Commies and then the German Fascists during WWII. They will do it again. If the Russians just kept Crimea, okay, it was Russian anyhow for many moons before Kruschev (of Ukrainian heritage) gave it as a gift to the Ukraine. But the Russians will go for another chunk of the Ukraine as they want a land bridge to Crimea. That’s not going to go over well, and that’s when there will be all out fighting, and then guerilla fighting against Russia, as Ukraine can’t win an all out fight. I’ll betcha here, lol.
There is no good guy in this.
There is only a winner and a loser.
A few words concerning people in this area and European “treatment”.
Babi Yar, Sobibor, Treblinka,,
And there are many others. Europeans, lead by Germans have done as much evil in Ukraine as Russia. And that was a decade more recent.
That famous pic of the Nazi shooting a woman near Ivanhorod, as she held her baby close. That was a European, giving his “treatment” to Ukraine. Both sides hands are so bloodstained in Ukraine that its utterly retarded cold war fantasy to pretend that either has a huge moral high ground.
Dale, I’m in sympathy with that sentiment.
I can’t believe that nations have signed off on to let the E. U. rule over them.
They have essentially bought off on becoming states rather than nations.
Now, if that means a Russian takeover, I’m not for that. It would mean our allies were gone forever.
They may not be with us now all the time, but them not being available during global melt downs, would actually cost us long term.
I don’t agree with Russian aggression over it’s former Iron Curtain enclaves.
The E. U. should be opposed on general principles by it’s member nations. What the sam hell were they thinking?
THAT IS THE POINT OF THIS POST!
Thank you.
Here is the real recent history of the Russian incursion and annexation of Crimea.
From Heritage foundation... http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/3150796/posts?page=1
“On February 28, Russian troops, aided by pro-Russian local militia, occupied important sites across the Crimean Peninsula under the pretext of “protecting Russian people.” Now Crimea is under Moscow’s de facto control and the Russian parliament has voted to annex the region into the Russian Federation. The failure of the Obama Administration’s Russian “reset,” the unilateral disarming of Europe, and the U.S. reduction of forces and disengagement from Europe have led Russia to calculate that the West will not respond in any significant way. The Administration can demonstrate America’s commitment to its NATO allies and support for the Ukrainian people by bolstering the defenses of NATO countries in the region, lifting restrictions on energy exports to reduce Europe’s dependence on Russian natural gas, and enacting meaningful sanctions.
After three months of mass street demonstrations, the Ukrainian people succeeded in ousting their corrupt and incompetent president, the Kremlin-backed Viktor Yanukovych. On February 22, the Ukrainian parliament acted in favor of the people it represents by granting amnesty to all political prisoners, bringing back the constitution of 2004 (which reduces the powers of the president), and announcing an early presidential election in May.[1]
This was more than Russian President Vladimir Putin was willing to tolerate. On February 28, Russian troops, aided by pro-Russian local militia, violated Ukraine’s territorial integrity by occupying important sites across the Crimean Peninsula under the pretext of “protecting Russian people.” Soon after Russia’s invasion, an illegitimate referendum took place on March 16 to allow the people of Crimea a vote to determine whether they wanted to join the Russian Federation. This illegal referendum was denounced by the countries of the G-7 as well as the member states of NATO and the European Union (EU). Furthermore, it took place without international monitors and under armed occupation.
The outcome of this dubious referendum was obvious from the start. Over 96 percent of voters backed Crimea’s leaving Ukraine and joining Russia. Keeping in mind that this referendum took place under the watchful eye of thousands of Russian troops in Crimea, the outcome was not a surprise to many”
If you for Russia and against the USA, please leave the USA and go to Russia, you are not welcome here.
‘Dozens of pro-separatist people were burned to death today in a building hit with molotovs from right-sektor.’
Some details need to be added.
First, the Right Sector ( a wide spectrum of ‘right’ leaning groups which include average patriots to the more extreme ultra-nationalists with military experience ) was not the main element of the nationalists protests; they were actually largely young people, students, and soccer enthusiasts ( with their hooliganism that goes with it ), BUT these were Odessans.
I saw many videos of the young patriots wrapped in the Ukrainian flag, but I would say Right Sector members may have been 1 in a 100 if that.
So the patriots were having their peaceful march and they were attacked by an extremely well armed and organized pro-referendum ‘protestors’ ( thought I’d use the Russian media’s classification ).
I have read between 5 and 10 patriots died, I believe all from gunshots.
So the patriots did not back down and chased the pro-Russians back to were they had camps set up outside of a government building.
I am not sure if the pro-Russians were already occupying the building, but they made their way into the building, and as the patriots attempted to get close, they began firing weapons and throwing objects from the roof and I believe from inside the building.
The patriots began throwing Molotov cocktails at the building causing it to catch on fire.
I believe all of the pro-Russians that died was from smoke inhalation.
I could not substantiate the source, but I further read that of the 25 bodies they had identified so far, 15 were from Russia and 10 were from Transnistria ( Moldova ).
You really should read more about Ukrainian history.
Insurgent fighting is their game.
There’s also 46 million Ukrainians...can’t kill them all.
And your black and white winner/loser, when has that happened in recent history?
Incorrect to an extent.
I know it’s from Wikipedia, but without directing you to a few books:
‘Unlike competing Polish, Russian, Hungarian or Romanian nationalisms in late imperial Austria, imperial Russia, interwar Poland and Romania, Ukrainian nationalism did not include antisemitism as a core aspect of its program and saw Russians as well as Poles as the chief enemy with Jews playing a secondary role.’
‘Nevertheless, Ukrainian nationalism was not immune to the influence of the antisemitic climate in the Eastern and Central Europe, that had already become highly racialized in the late 19th century, and had developed an elaborate anti-Jewish discourse.’
‘However, Ukrainian nationalistic Jews were welcome in the Banderivtsy, provided they adopted the identity of the Galician Karaites, who were regarded as loyal compatriots.’
And this is exactly what happened at the Maidan; Jews fighting next to and with the Right Sector amongst others.
Welcome, but we both sadly know this means I’m clearly Spetsnaz.
Got that Mariner? If you do not support NATO, the military wing of the EU, it appears that you are a traitor somehow, to America. All loyal Americans should always support Brussels/
Is this the start of World War Three? or is this the re-birth of a Russian Empire? Its really not about what Obama will do—but what Poland or Hungary or Germany will do?
KGB Putin's terrorist regime helped our islamofascist enemies kill our soldiers and maim them with IED's.
If you are against the USA and NATO and for Russia, then you are a damned traitor to the USA.
That is, if you are even an American at all, which I have no reason to believe.
You sound like one of them dirty lying Russkies to me.
Then you’re a damned idiot. I do not have the slightest allegiance to some military alliance that primarily serves to drag us into European BS. America does all the lifting, and Euros are barely involved with a token presence. (except for their officer corps which is thrilled to be in a joint headquarters)
Should I also have loyalty to the IMF? How about to the Test Ban treaty? Go be loyal to France and Germany and England if you want,,,, Kraut.
But spare me your assaholic lectures. Germany bans homeschools. Brits will arrest you for reading Churchill in Public. France has a 90% tax. Yes, I am a traitor to them all.
Ridiculous.
Tell us about the time you spent with your ass in the grass. Sniff*,,, You sure as hell weren’t no grunt, I can tell.
” I know it’s not a popular opinion, but the “government” in Kiev admitted over the past few weeks that numerous armories had been taken over in the Eastern Ukraine.”
I have thought this same thing, but I have also seen pics of RPG30s in Ukraine which are exclusively 2013 Russian military grade.
But, from an investigative point, this is not conclusive.
Now as to terrorism, taking hostages, beating and torturing hostages ( see Vice News reporter’s account who was held hostage for 2 or 3 days in Slovyansk ), making Ukrainian speaking people ‘register’ at the ‘mayor’s’ office, and killing Ukrainian soldiers; I would have to put this group in the terrorist category.
But one’s terrorists is another’s freedom fighters they say.
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