Cliven Bundy Just Ruined His Cause

Why don’t you watch the video for yourself (starting from 10 min to 21 min). It’s in post 161.

I don’t disagree the black people are in a state of mess by their own design. I just disagree strongly with the way Bundy said it.

If we don’t make it clear right off the bat that we disagree with the way he said it, because it’s clearly racist HOW he said it, then the conservative movement is going to be set back 10 times more than after the Akin disaster.

It’s probably toughest of all to recognize error in someone who you strongly support. I learned that lesson a long time ago.

In current American thought, or what passes as thought, he simply killed himself as a rallying point. (Even though he is correct as a matter of reason. As is well known reason does not govern American public life.)

“Who was burning those cities [during the race riots] was it ‘We the people’ or was it black people”. Approximately minute 15. (Note, of course it’s a fact the blacks burned the cities but the implication he’s making is that black people are NOT ‘We the people’, see above.)

Again, you seem to see everything thru a racial prism. The "We the people" he was referring to was society in general. These were race riots by one race. Is it racist to suggest that blacks were the ones burning down the cities and not some multiracial group reflective of the society as a whole who was doing the damage?

Recently, we try not to characterize the "flash mobs" that rush into stores and steal goods as being black, yet they are. The "knockout game" is almost entirely black on white and Asian violence with very few exceptions--and those rare exceptions are the ones covered extensively by the MSM.

"An analysis of 'single offender victimization figures' from the FBI for 2007 finds blacks committed 433,934 crimes against whites, eight times the 55,685 whites committed against blacks. Interracial rape is almost exclusively black on white -- with 14,000 assaults on white women by African Americans in 2007. Not one case of a white sexual assault on a black female was found in the FBI study."

Though blacks are outnumbered 5-to-1 in the population by whites, they commit eight times as many crimes against whites as the reverse. By those 2007 numbers, a black male was 40 times as likely to assault a white person as the reverse.

If interracial crime is the ugliest manifestation of racism, what does this tell us about where racism really resides -- in America?

You should read, White Girl Bleed a Lot: the Return of Racial Violence to America to understand what true racism is about. And it is racism that goes beyond mere words or perceived insults.

They are slaves still...plenty of them..whites too. But many have taken advantage of the hard won freedom to excel. So overall, his point is idiotic.

Why don’t you watch the video for yourself (starting from 10 min to 21 min). It’s in post 161.i>

I did and don't consider it to be racist.

I don’t disagree the black people are in a state of mess by their own design.

Now that's racist.

If we don’t make it clear right off the bat that we disagree with the way he said it, because it’s clearly racist HOW he said it, then the conservative movement is going to be set back 10 times more than after the Akin disaster.

It won't make a bit of difference. The more these so-called conservatives denounce him, the guiltier they look. They are just buying into the narrative that Bundy said something racist. He didn't. There is no need to defend him or denounce him.

The "Akin disaster" was more of a problem with Romney and Priebus denouncing him and cutting off funding than the actual remarks themselves. Why help the Dems destroy him even after he issued an apology and an explanation?

It’s probably toughest of all to recognize error in someone who you strongly support. I learned that lesson a long time ago.

So why don't the Dems follow suit when it is their people? Instead, they rally around their own and deflect attacks. They don't form circular firing squads. They do win elections and are well on the road to permanent majority status thanks to changing demographics fueled by mass immigration and higher minority birthrates.

Brian Resneck...another knee jerking idiot.

I give up. You win. Conservatism looses.

Thank you. At least there’s some sanity here.

Every time the ideals of truth and freedom come up, there is some major flaw that comes out and gives the libs the win.

I’m getting sick of this.

Wanting a free country and a limited federal government is not wrong, but racism is. And that is a very racist thing to say. The guy has done so much wrong that no one can die on this hill. Too bad. Once more.

“I don’t disagree the black people are in a state of mess by their own design.”

That’s right that was racist of me to say. Why? Because I should have said “blacks who vote Democrat ...” Just like whites who vote Democrat, Asians who do and so on, are in the mess we’re ALL in, not because of their race but because of how they vote. See how easy that is to admit when you’re wrong?

Did Bundy say “blacks who vote Democrat burned the cities” or “black panthers burned the cities” or “radical blacks looking for a race riot burned the cities”? NO he only said “blacks burned the cities”. He didn’t even say SOME blacks. He just said blacks.

Do you believe that all blacks are just itching for a race riot? Do you believe there were some blacks in the 60’s that did NOT participate in the riots?

I certainly hope you do. Honestly, it’s not that hard to admit when you’re wrong. It’s even easier to admit when a hero is too. Try it sometime.

. For instance, at a job interview I may decide to say that I consider the office decor a throwback to the 70s, and that the interviewer definitely needs a breathmint (or ten) ...and it may be true. Is it necessary? Nope. Is it wise? Well, considering what my greater purpose is for me to be there, no it is not.

Uneducated and rural can’t be an excuse any more with the media and society doing beautiful gymnastic backbends to avoid any appearance of every potential racism or prejudice (except against the overweight, the conservative, or the Christian - those are fair game for lynching).

Everyone getting into the public eye has to KNOW not to spout off on what you don’t like about various groups. The duck dynasty guy wasn’t even allowed to say how he prefers females for sex. No one would stop or ridicule a gay man for preferring men.

This guy screwed things up for us, and it will always happen because the other side has Alinsky and all the cameras.

You know sometimes people on our side just plain screw up. We say all the time “sure racism exists in this country but we don’t let it in conservatism. We call that kind of crap out”.

Do we? Well here’s one time we can prove we do. That is, if we don’t have too much pride to admit when it does occur. Otherwise we’re no different than the leftists.

This exactly.

Too many people including FReepers don’t focus on our ideals; they are playing a sports game. The team they were on, they want to stay on, even when it goes against our ideals.

Newt Gingrich is not a trustworthy conservative. This site rode him down to the dust. Now FReepers are sticking with this guy even after he has done and said idiotic and racist things. STICK WITH IDEALS and not people. Make a freaking CIRCLE and stay in it, and if someone doesn’t fit, they are out. This guy is out, drop him. Talk about land rights, states’ rights, abusive federal government, but admit that this guy is just an example, not a figurehead or hero.

You know what racists do? They call others racist. That’s intellectually dishonest. If it was intentional, this is my reply and I will ignore your posts. If it was general and misplaced, I will accept your apology when given.

I work for a living, entering a new career and expend much more time at FR than I can afford, which included finding that video and posting it such as to prevent FReepers from going off the handle on false accusations of fake quotes and what-not.

I skipped through the video to find the quote for that purpose. If you’re right, I will discover that. But given the veracity of opinions here, pardon if I don’t take your word for it, as my definition of ‘racist’ is not a liberal’s but, as defined, quite liberal. I adhere to my ideals, which parallel many others here. My experience shapes me much as others’ do their own.

What I listened to wasn’t racist.

If my open mind and my time investment here isn’t good enough, then your opinion is just that. I’m sitting on the analogue...

If you want to drive home your point, then download some transcription software and transcribe the entire interview; you obviously have more time than some or most here.

Conservatism loses because so-called Conservatives like you overreact to alleged racial slurs, which just emboldens the race hustlers to continue to silence any real discussion due to political correctness and self-censorship. I don't know your motivation except perhaps some sense of moral superiority to people like Mr. Bundy who had the temerity to say something you don't like.

Another subject: Why do you misspell the word "forty?"

I give up. You win. Conservatism looses.[sic]

The word is "loses."

You don’t have 11 minutes to listen to the relevant portion? (10:00-21:00)? You must be really busy ( and type pretty fast).

Thanks. I didn’t know FR was a spelling contest. I guess I’m really looooooooooooosing huh?

:)

Not the most articulate thing he could have said, if he said it. Maybe he should call up Paul Ryan and they can go on tour together. Actually, black people were better off in the ‘50s when they didn’t have government assistance thrown at them, they were working at any job and eager to go to school because they recognized that education was the way out of poverty. This was before the double whammy of drugs and The Great Society hit them.

That’s right that was racist of me to say. Why? Because I should have said “blacks who vote Democrat ...” Just like whites who vote Democrat, Asians who do and so on, are in the mess we’re ALL in, not because of their race but because of how they vote. See how easy that is to admit when you’re wrong?i>

Rather tortured logic and voting is not the reason that many blacks find themselves in a permanent underclass. Individuals must take responsibility for their choices. The destruction of the black family contributes to the problem. Lousy schools make it more difficult to rise up the economic ladder. And Dems and Reps have not made a concerted effort to help blacks, especially children, in urban areas rise above this cycle of dependency and an environment dominated by crime, corruption, and drugs.

If the Reps want to help blacks, why are they supporting mass immigration of over one million legal permanent immigrants a year along with 650,000 guest workers annually? They take American jobs and depress wages. Minorities are especially hit hard since many of the immigrants are unskilled and uneducated. The Gang of 8 bill that passed in the Senate with 14 Rep votes will triple legal immigration over the next decade to 33 million and double the guest worker program to 1.4 million a year. Most House Reps want to increase significantly the guest worker programs. The Chamber of Commerce is driving GOP policy to the detriment of this country.

If you want to read something truly devastating, read this: Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts? Try 95 Percent

And the unemployment figures for all of our young people are terrible. If we had a real labor shortage, wages would be going up, not down.

In the fourth quarter of 2013, the standard unemployment rate (referred to as U-3) for native-born adults who have not completed high school was 16.6 percent, while for those with only a high school education it was 8.5. The U-3 unemployed are people who have looked for a job in the last four weeks.

The broader U-6 measure of unemployment — which includes those want to work, but have not looked recently, and those forced to work part-time — was 28.7 percent for native-born adults who have not completed high school and 16.5 percent for those with only a high school education.

The total number of native-born, working-age adults (18 to 65) of any education level not working (unemployed or out the labor force) was 50.5 million in the fourth quarter of 2012 — 8.8 million more than in the fourth quarter of 2007, and 14.7 million more than in the same quarter of 2000.

The share of working-age (18 to 65) natives holding a job has not recovered from the Great Recession. In the fourth quarter of 2013, 31 percent were not working, something that has barely improved in the last five years.

In the fourth quarter of 2013, there were only two working-age natives holding a job for every one that was not employed. This represents a huge deterioration. As recently as 2000, there were three working-age adults holding a job for every one not working.

Do you believe that all blacks are just itching for a race riot? Do you believe there were some blacks in the 60’s that did NOT participate in the riots?

First, I was around for the race riots in the 60's. The country was a tinderbox as the civil rights movement was gaining steam. I can see similar conditions today with huge numbers of young unemployed blacks who are disenchanted with the system and surrounded by wealth that they have no shot at obtaining. We are building a huge permanent underclass that will explode at some point. And it doesn't help to have a President who is fanning the flames.

I certainly hope you do. Honestly, it’s not that hard to admit when you’re wrong. It’s even easier to admit when a hero is too. Try it sometime.

I don't consider Bundy to be "wrong." He is entitled to his own personal opinions and way of expressing them. It should have nothing to do with the issue of his ranch and the BLM. And according to the law and court decisions, society has said that Bundy is wrong. I still support him.

Since FourtySeven is your handle, I was just curious as to why you would misspell the word forty. Are you saying you didn’t know it was misspelled? Or are you just too proud to admit it when you are wrong?