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To: mdmathis6
Here is the OT depiction of the Celebration of the first fruits. Notice in addition to the sheafs of fruits a lamb was also offered. This was well known as prophetic though very few even in Jesus’ time knew the whole import of the feast until after the Resurrection.

There it is. Stop right there. As the mechanic would say, "There's your problem."

It's not that none of this was "known" until after the Resurrection, it's that no one interpreted it that way until after the Resurrection. And then, only people determined to still consider Jesus the Messiah would interpret it that way. The reason Jews do not consider Jesus the Messiah is because that is not what the Messiah was sent to do, as far as THEY understood it.

Do you understand? As far as THEY understood it (and do to this day), the Messiah was sent to free Israel from foreign rule.

Before we go any further, do you understand what I am saying? I'm not even trying to get into whether you think the Jews are right or wrong (although it's rather amusing for non-Jews to say that Jews were wrong about their own hopes and dreams for their own nation and their own prophecies about how it would come about.)

Just going by what you said right there, these celebrations and feasts were NOT INTERPRETED YOUR WAY UNTIL AFTER JESUS DIED. Right?

392 posted on 04/20/2014 9:15:31 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady

No duh!....of course they were expecting a military messiah; no one is denying that....Until Acts chapter 2...when the Holy spirit fell upon the disciples, when the Living word of God empowered them to preach, teach, heal and Old Testament prophecies were revealed to them in a way God always had intended for his word to be interpreted....thru the Lens of Jesus Christ, God in Flesh, died and raised again. At the time of Jesus birth we know of at least 4 folks that really got it...Mary, Joseph, Simeon and the prophetess Anna.

from Luke 2: And when the days of her purification according to the Law of Moses were accomplished, they brought Him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord

23 (as it is written in the law of the Lord: “Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord”),

24 and to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord: “A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons.”

25 And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel; and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost that he should not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.

27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus to do for Him after the custom of the law,

28 then he took Him up in his arms, and blessed God and said,

29 “Lord, now lettest Thou Thy servant depart in peace, according to Thy word;

30 for mine eyes have seen Thy salvation,

31 which Thou hast prepared before the face of all people,

32 a light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of Thy people Israel.”

33 And Joseph and His mother marveled at those things which were spoken of Him.

34 And Simeon blessed them and said unto Mary His mother, “Behold, this Child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel, and for a sign which shall be spoken against

35 (yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also), that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.”

36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel of the tribe of Asher. She was of great age and had lived with a husband seven years from her virginity,

37 and she was a widow of about fourscore and four years. She departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.

38 And she, coming in that instant, gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spoke of Him to all those who looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

Job knew Christ as his redeemer who would resurrect him, a millennia or so before Christ came upon the scene:Job 19:25 As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth. 26”Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God; 27Whom I myself shall behold, And whom my eyes will see and not another.

Finally: several passages from Isaiah...cross reference them with the prophecy of Simeon...and tell me again there weren’t folks who didn’t know Christ’s real mission at least in part...despite the common conception of that day of a military messiah. Note the mention of God’s light being offered to GENTILE NATIONS,!

Isaiah 9:2
The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of deep darkness a light has dawned.

Isaiah 11:10
In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious.

Isaiah 42:6
“I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles,

Isaiah 49:6
he says: “It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”

John 3:16-17:”For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17”For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.…

Cross reference the above verses with John 3:16-17. By the way he was speaking to Nicodemus, one of the priests who also realized that Jesus was not the military Messiah...but one who wanted to make other sons of God...out of the whole world if it were possible!

You make a snarky issue of Christ not asserting himself as the son of God, when asked but in fact the record we have says he did on multiple occaisions. With Pilate, he simply said that he had a Kingdom not of this world, and that those who had delivered him to Pilate had the greater sin.

You see this as being of great significance that Christ didn’t say...I’m God in flesh (and your really gonna get it), but yet the record indicates mentioning a Kingdom not of this world was enough to upset Pilate. Magistrates deal with all kinds of people who claim they are God or Devils and tend to think they are crazy or lunatics...they will treat them leniently and put them on public record as being mad. Christ being on the mission to die so that men would live, couldn’t afford to get caught up into a legal argument questioning his sanity.

From what we know of Pilate from the secular scraps of history available to us and the biblical accounts, he washed his hands of the matter, released Barabbas, and sent Jesus to his death. The Chief priests reminded Pilate that anyone claiming to have a Kingdom would be an affront to Rome, and there, I believe Pilate saw his way out of the mess.

Pilate was already under some criticism regarding his offending the religious sensibilities of the Jews and the historic record says he was later recalled to Rome to answer for his brutality in putting down a Samaritan uprising.

I believe Pilate hated being made a catspaw to snare an innocent man and have him killed which is why he had inscribed in HEBREW, GREEK, an LATIN...Jesus of Nazareth, The King of the Jews. Interesting that it wasn’t Aramaic, but Hebrew; and since Hebrew was the language spoken in the Temple, Pilate really must have wanted to embarrass the Chief priests deeply and make it sting!


478 posted on 04/20/2014 7:21:13 PM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: A_perfect_lady
Just going by what you said right there, these celebrations and feasts were NOT INTERPRETED YOUR WAY UNTIL AFTER JESUS DIED. Right?

Hindsight is usually 20-20.

519 posted on 04/21/2014 4:27:48 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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