Nevada rancher standoff turns on a states’ rights debate

CBS ^ | April 14, 2014

[Jim Robinson]

MESQUITE, Nev. - A day after blinking in a showdown on the range, federal land managers pledged to pursue efforts to resolve a conflict with a southern Nevada rancher who has refused to pay grazing fees for 20 years.

Bureau of Land Management spokesman Craig Leff said the agency would continue to try to resolve the matter involving rancher Cliven Bundy "administratively and judicially." Bundy owes more than $1 million in grazing fees, according to the bureau.

"The door isn't closed. We'll figure out how to move forward with this," he said Sunday. He declined to comment on possible options.

Bundy did not respond to requests for comment.

The fight between Bundy and the Bureau of Land Management widened into a debate about states' rights and federal land-use policy. Bundy does not recognize federal authority on land he insists belongs to Nevada. The debate over who is right became so heated that a self-described armed local militia has come to his aide.

~~~snip~~~

In April 2012, the Center for Biological Diversity filed a notice of intent to sue the bureau for canceling a planned roundup of Bundy's cattle at the last minute.

The dispute that ultimately triggered last week's roundup dates to 1993, when the bureau cited concern for the federally protected desert tortoise in the region.

The bureau was implementing two federal court orders issued last year to remove Bundy's cattle after making repeated efforts to resolve the matter outside court.

[DoodleDawg]

If "I" the government own land and then "I" allow brother Nevada to draw boarders and put in place articles of corporation and then become a member of the "United States" which includes the protections of the Constitution how do "I" now have claim of any land within those boarders?

The Nevada Enabling Act of 1864 outlined what land the federal government deeded to the state and for what purpose. Everything else they kept. After statehood additional land was disposed of through the Homestead Act. Some was sold for through other means. But nothing voided the governments ownership of what remained.

[taxcontrol]

Sure, easy enough. It is in the Nevada State Constitution: http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Const/NvConst.html

Under the section called Ordinance. Specificly paragraphs one and two. See item 3 of both paragraphs. In paragraph one, you will find the clause that cedes control of any US lands and in paragraph two you will see where it will not tax any such lands.

[GregNH]

Thank you. I guess I need to edify myself in this area.

[crz]

That is him! What the hells his name I wonder. His name, address and all.

[GregNH]

^”Educate”, not edify. Your the one who is edifying...

[kiryandil]

tortoiseForts wrote:

The land in question is within the Lake Mead National Recreation area (Hover dam)...

...So as for “needful” this area can be described as having a number of needful buildings. Including power plants, ranger stations, maintenance buildings, and even Dock-yards. Yes I know some people do not understand the definition of dock-yards and try to make fun of the situation but there are docks and surrounding support buildings, thus dock-yards...

Georgia Girl:

He's BAAACKK!!!

Moving The Hover dam into place athwart the navigable Yellow-Back Gear Queer Waterway* to Clark County's Cliven Bundy Memorial tortoiseForts, after leaving The Boundary Peak dock-Yards (elevation 12,000 feet) several hours earlier:

*The Yellow-Back Gear Queer Waterway, a navigable Inland Waterway, was hastily constructed by the US Army Corpse of Engineers at the behest of President-Princess Pinocchio, in order to expedite the transfer of fresh Wagyu steaks to the White Hut's gourmet kitchens, and Arsenals.

Making fun would be so - rude...

[taxcontrol]

You know, when liberals run of out arguments and facts to support their case, they resort to trying to mock someone as well. Sad to see you fall into that same mode of operation.

[Cen-Tejas]

.....good post but it doesn’t seem to notice that what millions of people are pissed off about is not the damn cattle OR FEDERAL LANDS or Article 3 but the exact phenomenon your post Seeks to address. Namely, the power of the federal government is derived not from the government but from the CONSENT of the people! The federal government has lost that consent therefore it’s power. So, now what?! Does your Article 3 even matter, at this point?!

George Will said it pretty good last Sunday when he said he believes the American people are about to dispose of this government, one way or another.

[Georgia Girl 2]

The Stazi thanks you for your unwavering support comrade. :-)

[kiryandil]

The Fedcoats do not pay property taxes to state or local governments on land.

They DO, however, have a thingee called PILT (Payment In Lieu of Taxes).

There is some data on this laying around at some of the Nevada public university websites, but most of it is not very current.

I believe there is some from 2000, at least, when the BLM (Bumbling Loser Muppets) was well-engaged in trying to steal Bundy's paid-for and maintained water rights.

[Karl Spooner]

In the case of Nevada and a lot of the other western states, government ownership of the land predates the creation of the state.

Hmmm, I don't see your point other than the western states are still getting screwed. Past precedent calls for remedy.

How many states were states before the Louisiana purchase in this map?

.

Then look at Federal control of that land.

[taxcontrol]

Many valid points and valid questions. It just seems to me that starting this fight over unpaid range fees seems, I don’t know ... petty on both sides.

Protest over it ... sure go ahead. Call your congressman or even organize a campaign to vote them out. No problem. It just does not seem like the right time and place to “go hot”. It just seems to me like there are plenty of other injustices to get upset about. For example, Connecticut and New York’s gun laws are a clear violation of the 2nd Amendment. There are plenty of others but this just feels wrong because there really is no moral high ground over this incident.

Perhaps as history unfolds, there will need to be a series of these transgressions of our government before the final straw that breaks the back is added to the haystack. This just does not feel like the hill to die on.

[taxcontrol]

Again, when liberals run out of facts, they resort to name calling and poor attempts at mockery.

[Georgia Girl 2]

“George Will said it pretty good last Sunday when he said he believes the American people are about to dispose of this government, one way or another.”

When George Will wakes up you know things are going hot. :-)

I just finished a 30 minute video put up on Youtube by two of the militia leaders. They said they had 500 militia surrounding those 20 BLM agents that were hiding behind the cars. They were totally in a kill box. He said they would have killed them all in about 30 seconds. They were so scared they left their SUV’s, generators still running and all equipment and just hightailed it. In fact they called the LVPD to come save them.

In addition he said that the under sheriff working for Gillespie tried to change the deal at the gate but the crowd just kept insisting on getting the cattle.

At some point the militia realized or suspected that the 20 BLM guys had been deliberately left behind as sacrificial lambs to die to cause a false flag so the govt could come in full force and kill everyone. Then let the media spin it. So they just sat back and did nothing. Finally the Feds broke and gave up. He said he thinks those poor 20 BLM guys figured it out and that is why they were so panic stricken.

I don’t think this is over. The Feds are so arrogant they will come back and do something stupid.

They also alluded and I read this somewhere else that there is some suspicion at least a few of those BLM guys were not Aericans.

[kiryandil]

You have no case - that's why we're mocking you.

It's about the tortoises, not the grazing right fees.

The Bureau of Feudal Land Mismanagement is just throwing the "grazing fees" canard against the wall to see if it will stick, like a monkey throws feces at zoo-goers.

Oh, OK - NOW you've gone and done it. I'll just have to post the two links explaining the BLM's little schemes IN DETAIL, once again:

Hello all, native from that area here.
http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/22xbf6/feds_end_roundup_release_cattle_after_tense/cgrqo1p

Take aways from the ongoing Bundyranch situation
http://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/22ntn8/take_aways_from_the_ongoing_bundyranch_situation/cgoyftl

[austinaero]

No offensive and I have nothing against you at all personally.

I would feel a lot better if I could somehow verify what you are putting out.

Just me.. Not meant to provoke or harass. I’ve learned that trust has to be earned the hard way.

[kiryandil]

The Stazi thanks you for your unwavering support comrade. :-)

"attempt" at mockery?

That's what Obama said when Sarah Palin nailed him on his ghey little Mom Jeans...

High-five, GG!

[kiryandil]

Just me.. Not meant to provoke or harass. I’ve learned that trust has to be earned the hard way.

"Deep In The tortoiseForts Forest"

[mad_as_he$$]

I am very familiar with PILT. it was left out of the last Federal budget and has hurt counties in the West. I was challenging taxcontrol's statement that taxation of real property was waived in the Nevada Constitution.

[mad_as_he$$]

Thank you for making Cliven Bundy’s point.

Third. That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States; and that lands belonging to citizens of the United States, residing without the said state, shall never be taxed higher than the land belonging to the residents thereof; and that no taxes shall be imposed by said state on lands or property therein belonging to, or which may hereafter be purchased by, the United States, unless otherwise provided by the congress of the United States.

You employer needs to feed you some new info to post. That land was appropriated as open range and is the basis of Bundy’s claim. That is all.