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To: Haiku Guy
I STRONGLY disagree.

Here is the correct approach by those doing a necessary job in a society of free peoples :signalling the vehicle to stop ,and a cautious approach with HOLSTERED weapons until close enough to see the occupants were an older woman and children,at which time a slight relaxation in posture would have been appropriate,followed by a REQUEST for license and registration,and a question as to the reason for "cruising the parking lot". the assumption that everyone is a criminal and dangerous until proven otherwise is a complete reversal of traditional America,and that viewpoint neds to be eradicated from police training and policy. There is entirely too much willingness and desire to point guns at people by cowards in uniform. Yes,I said COWARDS, and I mean it!This nation is beset by cowards in uniform who shoot out of unreasoning fear that every and any movement is “reaching for a weapon”. These cowards routinely shoot dogs that are no threat,and unarmed people.Then their bosses defend those acts.

It's been over twenty years since I wore a badge,did traffic stops,responded to accidents, and prowler calls,etc.;and my gun stayed in the holster unless there was a real threat.If there seemed to be potential them my hand was on the holstered gun.Pulling a weapon unless actually threatened creates more danger for everyone and is usually punished if a mere "civilian" dares such a thing. (Another artificial distinction promoted by statists;police ARE civilians.)

But I did have a comrade in uniform who thought it prudent to always pull his gun on routine traffic stops;and the department later had another who pointed his gun at a mother who drove slowly to a safer spot before pulling over.

My instructor long ago told us never point a gun at anything you didn't want to shoot.the chances for “accidental” shots fired by startled ,nervous holders is very high.

There is no good reason for the actions of these Air Farce officers,anymore than the vast majority of guns pointed at people by government agents.

And that was no apology issued by the Air Farce but a CYA press release instead.An true apology would have been delivered in person by the chief and officers involved.The sovereign immunity doctrine protects too many incompetents and powertrippers.

79 posted on 04/11/2014 8:09:27 AM PDT by hoosierham (Freedom isn't free)
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To: hoosierham

“My instructor long ago told us never point a gun at anything you didn’t want to shoot”

Weapons training 101.


81 posted on 04/11/2014 8:43:56 AM PDT by riverdawg
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To: hoosierham
Here is the correct approach by those doing a necessary job in a society of free peoples :signalling the vehicle to stop ,and a cautious approach with HOLSTERED weapons until close enough to see the occupants were an older woman and children,at which time a slight relaxation in posture would have been appropriate,followed by a REQUEST for license and registration,and a question as to the reason for "cruising the parking lot".

Actually, they would have had to approach the vehicle and question why they were driving a stolen vehicle. Remember, at the time of the stop, the information in the hands of the police indicated that the vehicle was stolen. It was only a subsequent check of the VIN Number that revealed that the vehicle was not stolen.

If they had drawn a weapon on somebody for just cruising the parking lot, that might be an over-reaction. But I have driven around that very parking lot, for the very same reason, looking at out-of-state plates, and I only got followed by a patrol vehicle until I exited the base.

When the patrol vehicle showed up in my rearview, it dawned on me that my driving around looking at license plates might look a little suspicious, so I waved at the guards and departed, being very careful to stop at all the signs and follow all the speed limits. I guess my license plate came up clean, or it would have been me handcuffed on the side of the road. I would have been OK with that.

The rest of your post is just more ranting at these officers for doing something they didn't do. Yes, cops sometimes shoot dogs. Yes, cops sometimes rough people up. That did not happen here.

82 posted on 04/11/2014 9:00:27 AM PDT by Haiku Guy (Health Care Haiku: If You Have a Right / To the Labor I Provide / I Must Be Your Slave)
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To: hoosierham

I think your response is the best one.

I too question the entire mind set of the responding personnel, their supervisors, and the base commander.

First, it sounds as if vehicles “cruising” the parking lot looking at license plates is a common occurrence. I wonder if the SP quality control people and/or base exercise teams test the responding officers reactions to just such a situation? When I was an AF base exercise team chief in the mid 1980’s not all of my SP response scenarios required an high intensity response. With base wide exercise once every quarter you can cover a lot of scenarios and different responses.

Second, what is the probability of a terrorist attack on Wright-Patt? Not every place in the CONUS is under the same level of terrorist threat. Proof? Why did September 11, 2001 happen where it did and not elsewhere? But, the bureaucratic mind set is one size must fit all regardless of how stupid or painful. That mind set creates incidents like this all too easily. BTW that mind set isn’t limited to the DOD.

Finally, despite the PAO’s response nothing has changed, nor will it. The best way to prevent this, or something worse, from happening again is some very vigorous PT for everyone from the responding SPs to the base commander - 20 laps around the fence in full chem protective gear comes to mind. Why do I want the base commander to join this fun run? His command authority extends well beyond his desk top and office; but, like most commanders he spends all too little time outside his office seeing what is really going on. The image is there but, as this non-fatal (by the grace of God) incident proves, the reality ain’t!


84 posted on 04/11/2014 9:34:45 AM PDT by Nip (BOHEICA and TANSTAAFL - both seem very appropriate today.)
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