Moscow signals concern for Russians in Estonia

reuters.com ^ | Mar 19, 2014 | Robert Evans

[Paul R.]

Yep. The enemy of my enemy may be... another enemy.

I think its over-the-top partisanship or fear. And, understandable war-weariness too, and the usual American inclination to isolationism & MYOB. Most Americans simply do not think in terms of conflicts that in actuality last centuries or more, and can only be won on that basis, unless one decides to “simply” wipe the opposition off the face of the earth.

I’ve posted elsewhere about why I believe Radical Islam, while quite dangerous, is not THE most dangerous foe over the long run...

[dfwgator]

I’ve posted elsewhere about why I believe Radical Islam, while quite dangerous, is not THE most dangerous foe over the long run...

Disagree, it is the enemy. Russia is only one country, Islam has extended it's tentacles into every country.

[Paul R.]

Not letting 5000 nukes float around was not in our interest? What kind of ignorance is that?

It is still a formal international agreement, signed at a presidential level by successive Administrations over a 15 year period, most recently in 2009, and considering the stakes, far more important than the average treaty.

However, your interpretation is exactly why our allies have every reason to believe the American People are as a whole, worthless / “without honor.” If I’m any of a dozen countries, I’m starting on nukes of my own, right now.

I would not sign a contract, personal or international, with ANYONE displaying such lack of honor. “Only if it is in our interest”... We’ll find out what the repercussions of that attitude are.

How far we have sunk...

[HereInTheHeartland]

Red Storm Rising was my favorite Clancy book. Sucks seeing it happen. This isn’t good at all.

[Paul R.]

Yep. Irrational. Who has any real power? The Muslims are dangerous, yet practically defeat themselves. And there are reasons they get spanked in the modern world, every time it really counts. Tiny Israel is only truly threatened by OUR bumbling and inaction. Putin knows exactly what he is doing, and has a mostly successful path and mindset over the last few centuries to go by.

An interesting alternate history would be one in which Russia had not been derailed by Communism. Heh.

[dfwgator]

Well my best case scenario for WWII....Hitler takes Moscow, Stalin is overthrown by the Generals, and a new government of National Salvation is formed in the Soviet Union that is more inclusive of all political views, and they go on and smash Hitler.

No More Nazis, No More Bolsheviks.

[dfwgator]

It’s like cancer, what’s easier to treat, a big tumor in one area, or cancer that has metastasized across many countries?

[Hoodat]

Estonia = NATO member. The US and Europe are treaty-bound to defend it. . .

. . . just like the President of the United States is bound to uphold and defend the Constitution.

[b4its2late]

Oh boy. Calls for another round of golf for zero.

[Qiviut]

Welcome to the Putin Doctrine. He looks at Europe and the United States and sees LGBTQIA, which he perceives (correctly) as weakness, and proceeds accordingly.

*************************************************

I’d bet money he knows who and what Obama is personally .... and is proceeding accordingly.

[thackney]

ESTONIA
http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=en

Country Analysis Note

While Estonia does not have significant conventional oil or natural gas resources of its own, it is a transit country for Russian oil en route to the Baltic Sea. More than 300,000 barrels per day (bbl/d) of mostly refined petroleum products was exported via Muuga and other ports in 2011.

Estonia does, however, stand out as one of the few producers of oil shale in the world and has mined it since 1916.

Estonia produced 11,000 bbl/d of petroleum liquids from oil shale in 2011. There are three oil shale producers in Estonia: VKG Oil, Eesti Energia (Enefit), and Kiviõli Keemiatööstus. Enefit, the Estonian energy company, plans to increase its production of petroleum liquids from oil shale from 3,000 bbl/d to 22,000 bbl/d by 2016.

Enefit owns the largest oil shale-fueled power plants in the world, the Narva Power Plants. More than 90 percent of Estonia's power is generated using petroleum derived from oil shale.

[expat_panama]

We let Putin take Georgia because that was all he wanted. If we let him finish ceasing the Ukraine then that will be it. OK, the Baltics —that’s all he wants. I mean, we can’t possibly be talking about Poland, Czech Republic, and “we-will-bury-you”...

[Jack Hammer]

Two words: Sudeten Germans.

[1rudeboy]

If only Washington had been nicer to the Russians after the fall of the Berlin Wall. If only the west had not humiliated Moscow after the break-up of the Soviet Union. Surely we can see now what a provocation it was to allow the former vassal states of the Soviet empire to exercise their democratic choice to join the community of nations? And what of permitting them to shelter under Nato’s security umbrella and to seek prosperity for their peoples in the European Union? Nothing, surely, could have been more calculated to squander the post-cold-war peace.

Financial Times, 2008.
FReeper russophiles, 2014.

[McGruff]

For those like me who don't know anything about Estonia.

[The Sons of Liberty]

Well heck, I suppose a Spanish invasion of Virginia or Colorado is to be expected any day now.

Newsflash: They have been pouring across the SW borders, spawning anchor babies, ever since the kenyan illegal alien crowned himself emperor.

[The Sons of Liberty]

Russia is flexing its muscles.

Putin has been emboldened by his royal wussiness, comrade emperor 0bama, but he'd better take care. Estonia is a member of NATO and we, along with the other members of NATO are treaty bound to come to their aid.

The NATO Treaty says:

"Article 5 is known as the "one-for-all and all-for-one" article, the keystone of NATO as an organization. It states that an "armed attack" against one member is an attack against all and sets in motion the possibility of collective self-defense. However, it only commits members to "assist the party or parties so attacked" and to take "such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force…." It does not automatically result in military action."

In the past when we had a REAL Commander in Chief these articles meant that we would wage full scale war in defense of a fellow member. Now that we have a Mom Jeans, frilly underwear wearing usurper, your guess is as good as anyone's.

[Zhang Fei]

The problem I see is that it’s not clear if the Baltic governments will fight the Russians. You hear a lot of “we are a small country...” over there. Facing Russian aggressioin there is a strong probability Estonia would just invoke Article V and wait for help.

The Baltic peoples who took up arms against the Soviets the first time around were country folks. City folks for the most part were not armed partisans. Nowadays there just is not a large and able rural population in the Baltics. Also, some of the leaders of the Baltics are former commies with questionable ethics. That leads me to seriously doubt they will fight the Russian bear if it reappears.

If their defense strategy is to fight the Russians to the last dead GI, I think we'd be better off having Estonia under the Russian flag.

[The Sons of Liberty]

Ukraine should have never agreed to give up the nukes it had.

You are absolutely correct! Back during the Cold War France was asked why it didn't cooperate more with the US and NATO, and their response made a lot of sense - "Unlike the US, which has to kill the russian bear, we only have to cut off a paw to keep him at bay". This would be the case with The Ukraine IF it still had nukes. Yesterday another FREEPER noted that comrade bubba klinton and his thugs put a lot of pressure on the Ukraine to give up it's nukes.

Meanwhile, the klintonites, the bushies and 0bamunists have been driving America toward unilateral nuclear disarmament at warp speed.

[Army Air Corps]

Only the parts that were highlighted. Say hello to Russian Empire v2.0