Mormon church-owned company buys huge swath of Florida land

Orlando Sentinel ^ | November 7, 2013 | Kevin Spear

[greyfoxx39]

The Mormon church stands to own nearly 2 percent of Florida by completing a deal to buy most of the real estate of the St. Joe Co. for more than a half-billion dollars.

The megapurchase was announced jointly Thursday by a corporate representative of church, which owns the nearly 295,000-acre Deseret Ranches in Central Florida, and by the real-estate and timber business, which has built several communities along the Panhandle coast.

[Larry Lucido]

The Mormon church stands to own nearly 2 percent of Florida by completing a deal to buy most of the real estate of the St. Joe Co. for more than a half-billion dollars.

So the whole state of Florida would only cost $25 billion? Is my math right?

[nascarnation]

I think they mean land area, not valuation.

[3Fingas]

Would you object if I said I was Jewish?

I am not Jewish, but I ask that because some peoples’ understanding of their faith would have a mandate for those who deny the central tenet of Christianity.

Muslims would probably object to Mormonism as well but I don’t think that you would advocate their remedy for their differences with that religion.

You or I may disagree with someone’s faith, but it is not for us to judge them. There is only one authority for that and it is not us. I see most Mormons as conducting themselves in a positive way, even if I think their theology is wrong in my eyes.

[hadaclueonce]

It is pick on Mormon Day. I did not get the memo. Muslims still get a pass. Time to pile on Mormons!

[Jean S]

How many Mormons molested you for you to have this much hatred towards that sect? My Lord, man, that’s all you do here! This is a conservative forum, not the I HATE MORMONS BBS.

Ditto! Some Freepers have a pathological obsession with Mormons. Many of them never even post on political threads.

[truth_seeker]

Hey, L.C., I heard you get paid to post your stuff, right guy?

By the post, by the shift, by the hour?

Just an oft repeated rumor, on the interwebs, when the well known subject of FR’s anti-Mormon crew comes up.

[Colofornian]

I think comparing Mormons to Wahhabis is ludicrous...I have known quite a few Mormons and, to a person, I have found them to be hard working, patriotic, and family oriented.

You mean we can't find any Muslims as well who are...
...hard working...?
...patriotic to either U.S. if they are citizens -- or, if we're talking about the Middle East -- patriotic to their given country...?
...family oriented...especially to their sons, parents, etc.?

And here I thought for a moment you were going to offer up something distinctive for us...

You: Many Mormons serve faithfully in the armed forces where I cannot say the same for Wahhabis.

Once again, you've yet managed to add another "distinction" where there is none! (Congrats!)

"Beginning in the last years of the 18th century Ibn Saud and his heirs would spend the next 140 years mounting various military campaigns to seize control of Arabia and its outlying regions."
Source: Wahhabi movement

It seems for a while that's all the Wahhabis did was to show their military prowess!

Care to try again?

Oh...and lest you think Mormons are all cut from the same "military" cloth...how about it if we wrest that illusion from you:
“War and Peace in Our Time: Mormon Perspectives” [Lds Pacifists alive and well]

Also, take a gander at J. Reuben Clark's pacifist views. Clark was Lds counselor to Mormon "prophets" Heber Grant & David McKay. (He was one of the top three Mormon hierarchists from 1933 to 1961)...

So...here the Mormons boasted as one of their top three leaders a pacifist during the Nazi years, during the Japanese years, during the North Korean years...

[NonValueAdded]

touche

[Secret Agent Man]

the mormon jesus or the real Jesus?

[jch10]

I lived in Bay County, on the north side of West Bay, for 12 years. We had great water but some neighbors did not.

Our property is surrounded by St. Joe land. I wonder if this St. Joe land was sold to the LDS church?

[mountainfolk]

Since you asked, I do not diagnose, nor can I know, the cause of an obvious, sustained, confrontational attack on the religious faith of a particular denomination by any particular person. Observation for months of the repetitious postings by a group of like minded anti Mormon posters, who seemingly have no life other than back and forthing their angst about the likelihood that Mormons are bound for hell along with any who do not condemn them, does leave an impression. Not a particularly inspiring or uplifting one at that.

[Colofornian]

...obvious, sustained, confrontational attack...

...The Mormon church has made sure that over these past 61 years its missionaries emphasize a so-called "UNIVERSAL" (complete) apostasy by the Christian church shortly after the apostles died.

Since 1952, the Lds church has sent out about a million missionaries...[Lds has boasted of over a million in its entire history; the largest swath have come in the last 60 years]. They work 70-hour weeks. That's a LOT of "apostasy" mongering...especially given the 80,000 Lds missionaries out & about daily.

And that doesn't include their 24/7 online accusations... 
...their books published in who knows how many languages... 
...their curricula... 
...their published articles... 
...their broadcasts...

Somebody who doesn't realize all of this strikes me as a little "green" when it comes to assessing what this multi-$billion organization has been doing...and to express worriment about the potential for some backwoods "cottage industry" to spring up that might actually stand up to this meta-narrative accuser of Christians & Christian churches the world over is really quite non-sensical and illogical.

We haven't invested $millions in labeling anybody, anything -- unlike the $millions the Mormon church has spent slandering worldwide Christianity as an apostate, corrupt, false & dead "church of the devil" (1 Nephi 14, Book of Mormon).

Here's documentation:

Snapshot of Joseph Smith’s Slanderous Invectives vs. Christian Sects	Mormon Source [Note: Most of these are Mormon ‘scriptures'. In fact, First three rows below are Lds 'scripture' & therefore cannot be rug-swept any more than a Jew might try to take three commandments off of the very tablets of stone Moses brought down from the mountain]
“...which of all the sects was right… must join NONE of them, for they were ALL WRONG… those professors were ALL CORRUPT…”	Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price
...“which of all the sects was right…ALL their CREEDS were an ABOMINATION in his sight…they teach for doctrines the commandments of MEN…”	Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price
Mormon church the only ‘Christ-sanctioned’ church on earth: “…the foundation of this [Mormon] church…the ONLY true and living church on the face of the whole earth” [Obvious ‘scorched earth’ implication: All other churches are false and dead]	Lds “scripture” Doctrines & Covenants 1:30
Direct question asked of Joseph Smith: 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?" Answer from Lds "prophet" Joseph Smith: 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness."	Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119 [Not “scripture” – but still publicly spoken by the Mormon ‘living prophet’ and published by a later Mormon ‘living prophet,’ Joseph Fielding Smith – via a publisher owned by the Mormon church – Deseret News Press, 1938]
“In 1952…the first official proselyting plan was sent to missionaries throughout the world…It included seven missionary discussions that emphasized…[four topics, one of them being]…THE APOSTASY and Restoration…” [This makes it 60 years that Mormon church missionaries, soon to number 85,000, have formally emphasized in its training & door to door saturation a priority in bashing the worldwide Christian church as “apostates” (100% AWOL)]	Our Heritage: A Brief History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints p. 116, 1996

[Colofornian]

...obvious, sustained, confrontational attack...

So why no "feedback" to the Mormon church, Mountainfolk about documented attacks upon worldwide Christianity? (see last post; plus links below)

Which bashers assumed the now 24/7 initiative to claim about worldwide Christianity that... 
...all Protestant, Catholic & Orthodox churches are all "apostate?" 
...all Protestant, Catholic & Orthodox churches are allegedly not part of the "only true & living church on the face of the earth" (D&C 1:30) -- thereby labeling them as false and dead? 
...all Protestant, Catholic & Orthodox creeds -- 100% of them -- are an "abomination" to the Mormon gods? 
...the gift of indwelling Holy Spirit is to be found NOWHERE outside of Mormonism?  
...no missionary work outside of Mormonism is recognized as divinely authorized?  
...no baptism outside of Mormonism is recognized as divinely authorized?  
...no communion outside of Mormonism is recognized as divinely authorized?  
...no spiritual gifts outside of Mormonism is recognized as divinely given?  
...although the apostle Paul wrote about prophetic gifts to the Corinthians (which is distinct from any official "OFFICE" of prophet as we find in the Old Testament), Mormonism claims no one but their top echelon speaks prophetically any more as guided by the Holy Spirit? [Ironically, many Mormon apologists and writers have attempted to belittle Christianity for saying God doesn't reveal revelations any more; yet, these very advocates of Mormonism have "bottled up" God from speaking to anyone beyond a few who happen to live in Salt Lake City!] 

Answer to each of these questions? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons), is it not? (Then Mormons should start taking responsibility for what their tithe pays for!)

Why does the Mormon faith bash us 24/7 as the heirs of "the Great Apostasy?"

Why does the Mormon faith bash us 24/7, claiming we in the Christian church have... 
...zero priesthood authority? 
...zero authoritative, prophetic revelation 
...our spiritual forefathers corrupted the scriptures beyond internal restoration or reformation?

Why does the Mormon faith bash 100% of our professing believers as being "corrupt" -- corrupt in both our theology as well as our individual & collective morality? (Joseph Smith History, vv. 18-20, Pearl of Great Price)

ALL: For more of the above, see this thread posted Oct. 9, 2013:
The Great Apostasy [Mormonism labels ALL Protestant, Catholic & Orthodox churches 'apostate']

See also If Mormonism is 'anti-Christian,' then how can it be considered 'Christian?'

[svcw]

How sad, how very sad.....you feel free to comment on a subject you know nothing about......10-4

[ejonesie22]

Dear lord we are so screwed. Billy if was good message, but the audience that would have heard it is long in the past.

[flaglady47]

“There’s an awful lot of Muzzies down there in Florida, which I find worrisome.
Oh?
Why??
Are you some kind of religious bigot?”

Are you a Muzzie lover?

[Elsie]

The Constitution of the United States is very clear on freedom of religion . .

Yup; right in there is also Freedom of Speech.

It appears that MORMONs and others might want to STIFLE mine.

Good luck with THAT!!

Truman said something about heat and the kitchen, I believe...

[Elsie]

Declaring a fatwa on FR?

Now THERE is a nice, Islamic concept!

I wonder from where IT emanates??

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

• Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

• Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

• Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

• As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

• Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

• Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

• Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, look to Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib, whom they consider Divinely appointed, as the rightful successor to Muhammad, and the first imam. (Ali was the cousin and son-in-law of the Islamic prophet Muhammad). Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

• Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.

---

[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.

[Elsie]

It looks like it; IF the data is correct.

[Elsie]

Would you object if I said I was Jewish?

Only if you THEN claimed that YOUR little group was the ONLY Jews, and all of the others are bogus.

THAT, my FRiend, is exactly what MORMONism claims: that all OF Christianity (EXCEPT THEM) is apostate and hellbound.

{Haven't you been READING the material provided here; directly from MORMON sources?}

Heck; the big bullies in SLC won't even let OTHER 'believers in the book of MORMON' be called "Mormon"!