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To: BroJoeK
But the NT never directly says, "Jesus is God Himself", and that is the current point of debate.

You're simply pettifogging the issue.

The claims of Christ are many and varied. He said that He existed before Abraham (John 8:58), and that He was equal with the Father (John 5:17, 18). Jesus claimed the ability to forgive sins (Mark 2:5–7), which the Bible teaches was something that God alone could do (Isaiah 43:25).

The New Testament equated Jesus as the creator of the universe (John 1:3), and that He is the one who holds everything together (Colossians 1:17). The apostle Paul says that God was manifest in the flesh (I Timothy 3:16, KJV), and John the evangelist says that “the Word was God” (John 1:1). The united testimony of Jesus and the writers of the New Testament is that He was more than mere man; He was God.

2,584 posted on 12/30/2013 11:33:20 AM PST by GarySpFc (We are saved by the precious blood of the God-man.)
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To: GarySpFc
GarySpFc: "The united testimony of Jesus and the writers of the New Testament is that He was more than mere man; He was God."

Of course the New Testament writers agree that Jesus was "more than mere man", that he was in some sense divine, even deity.
But they never say that Jesus was God Himself, and that for them was an important distinction.

Certainly, I "get" that a divine Jesus who is not God Himself can lead to certain theological "problems," problems the Church Fathers noodled & debated for centuries.
And I'm not even claiming those good Fathers didn't find the best available solutions to their theological "problem".

I am saying those "problems" didn't bother either NT writers or earliest Christians, and I see no particular reason why they should bother us.
So, if you want a trinity, then by all means believe it.
But your belief should not be an excuse for condemning to hell as "God Damned Heretics" people whose beliefs are actually closer to the original than yours.

Do you disagree?

2,595 posted on 12/30/2013 12:41:25 PM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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